Questions & answers about GSD structure/ conformation - Page 1

 I was inspired by Rik's willingness and generosity to share his knowledge of the GSD structure with me and thought why not make it wider for everyone who wishes to learn more about structure, have questions to ask or some doubts to share, on the other hand the more informed members can provide answers, explanations, pieces of info, tips, links, pictures, diagrams, videos etc.
Please this post is intended for us the less informed, those of us who want to learn and wish to find useful info in one place and have the ability to ask and get some answers no matter how silly the question might be, it is not a show post neither a work post, it is for all the people who love the GSD no matter what line or blood. Let us keep it to learning of structure and sharing knowledge. It is an open post and for all and each one. This is an invitation and request to all the older members and the informed (of dog structure, not only GSD) to share what they know with us, what you may think is a negligible piece of info might be of great value and importance to some of us. Thanks

Ibrahim

 I will start by posting a diagram here on the PDB for the correct angulation of GSD.
In the column on the left hand side of this site, there is a section:
About the breed

where you find information regarding the
body structure
general info &
standard

 This is a pic I received from Rik on another thread.



My understanding in regards to the shoulder blades is that they are not attached to the spine, they lay flat to the body and covered with muscles and when a dog is with good muscles they are harder to spot  with the eye and somewhat hard to feel with the hand touching.
Blades should be laid (start) right behind where the neck ends and back starts.
Now here is what I found hand touching several dogs:
Some blades are lower than the spine.
Some blades are very level with the spine
some blades are higher than the spine and  with a dip in between the two blades
some blades are higher than the spine and have a clear dip behind them (not the dip in between) into the spine.
Some blades are more into the neck itself rather than in the back and away from the above line from knee joint (elbow) to blade tips (towards the neck).
One blade was a bit higher than the spine and the tip point past the above line towards the back as shown of the above dog.

Please explain correctness or fault of each of the above blades lay and each one's contribution to the height of withers.

Added question: the dog above if were a GSD then it lacks chest forward development, correct?
And its upper arm angle is steep, lacking right?

Ibrahim

hello Ibrahim, I chose this dog first for a purpose. You are an engineer, so what is the angle of the shoulder. Lets take one thing at a time.

you are correct in that the upper arm is steep as compared to what is correct in a GSD.

Rik

 The angle in between drawn shoulder blade line and drawn upper arm is very clearly more than 90 degrees, probably around 100 degrees.
But I didn't think the lines represent the true angle. By sight I thought the actual angle is much less maybe around 80 degrees or less.

Ibrahim

 Correcting myself, the actual angle inbetween looks more than that inbetween the drawn lines. Probablt 110 to 120.

hello Ibrahim, if you really wish to learn these things, then what is the exact angle I present on my dog.

Rik

If you're asking about the angle inbetween the two drawn lines then it is 115 degrees to my best guess.

Ibrahim

 The angle inbetween horizontal and line of shoulders is 45 degrees but the angle between same horizontal and line of upper arm is 65 degrees. I don't have a software to check the angles, I checked manually but blur of  monitor was an obstacle.

Thanks, Ibrahim, I'll repost the links here if anyone wants to look 'em over.

http://www.dpca.org/JEC/illustrated_standard/Forequarters/forequarters.htm  This one is specific to the Doberman.

http://www.workingdogs.com/lshaw1.htm

http://www.shawlein.com/The_Standard/03_The_Middlepiece/The_Middlepiece.html

http://www.kaylar.com/dogshows/page17.htm

http://astanagsd.tripod.com/id18.html

http://www.siriusdog.com/anatomy-working-canine-dog-shoulder.htm

http://www.wolfweb.com.au/acd/shoulderinworkingdogs.htm