The "out" in SchH - Page 1

I prefer the barking, expecially with a strong dog.

I prefer an active guard,.....not every dog can pull off the out stare.. ...  I think it is best to decide the type of guard once you know the dog and its strengths/weaknesses

What would be the pros and cons?  In my old club, it was trained with an out/bark, and I can only think of one exception, because they couldn't succeed in getting the dog to bark!
 

During the hold and bark in the blind you can see and hear the soul of the dog!!
~Alfred Hahn, from the kennel vom Busecker Schloss

When I see the silent gaurd I always wonder what there trying to cover up? Right or wrong it,s the first thing that comes to my mind.

darylehret....The quote you put up is awesome. I too like an active Guard, and get excited as hell when I see a dog with fire in his/her eyes come around the blind with a powerful bark! but food for thought, something I had never thought of until the other day when it was brought up at training.....A silent guard gives much less chance of a bad grip on the re-attack due to the helper not having to worry about timing while the dog is moving in his bark. I still like an active guard, Just something that came up the other day!

We've always trained the bark. We have a couple  in the club that have been a struggle to get to bark again, they are fine starting out but once they've had a bite, silence. We had Phil Hoelcher here last year and when he worked one dog he said she was "locked in prey", which made sense. It's also just a good phrase ;), we use it a lot to make fun of one of the helpers when he was on Match.com LOL.
Anyway, it's taken a few months, but she is now giving a half dozen barks. And the other night she seemed to do it without much coaxing, so it's been work, but she got it. She is very intense, though, not cowering.
Now my own dog, he took a bit of work to get to bark again as well. But with him it was more like a look of curiosity when he'd out and wait for the next bite, kind of funny to see him do the head cock watching the helper. Luckily I'd taught him to bark for a hot dog, so we just transferred that and he started barking automatically in a few weeks.
Annette

Silent vs. Active ................... Dikiah is exactly right ...... not every dog can pull this off. I have had the active in my Sch/Police Dogs over the years. And would prefer active barking in competition. Although with many dogs that I have seen that are silent they definitely do not have nothing to hide. My present Sch dog did the silent guard and he has nothing to hide and his holding and barking in the blind is "very convincing"  USA/SV Judge Mike Hamilton ..... indicated. The Sch2 the same way ..... ALTHOUGH my dog now is doing the hold and bark in the guard and I will leave him be ......... In closing with this being said I think most judges like to see the POWER in the dog ...... as long as the dog can clear his mind properly while barking .................. and many times the dog can build power as he makes an active hold. If you do decide to make a silent hold ...... be sure that he is not at ease while in the guard ........ Regards ... Greg

Like any other part of training...You teach your dog things that compliment their persoanlity and which shows them the best...
I think the "Out and Bark" is still the best way to show your dog but if the dog can't settle into a good posture and/or if the dog will Bark and either continually move around or takes cheap bites or hits on the helper then one way of focusing them is to do a "Silent Out"...
As far as I know there are no point deductions for the "Silent Out"...but I believe that a number of judges will look more favoritablly on dogs that do the "Active Out"...
Maybe this would be a great question for a judge...

~Bob~

For BoCRon.....It seems that maybe your dog doesnt quite understand why he is barking at the helper. I wonder if the tranfer of barking for food to barking at the helper will hold up come trial time, has it worked in the past? Just an idea, If you took the dog into more defense and showed him that the helper could be a threat, or even a danger to him and that he could begin to control him through his bark it might help to bring out some more consistant, powerful barking on the field. Just my 2 cents Good Luck! Have a good one...