STICK HITS IN PROTECTION - Page 1

CAN ANY ONE THAT HAS COMPETED IN SCHUTZHUND TELL ME ABOUT THE RULES ON THE STICK HIT? I HAVE DONE A LOT OF RESEARCH ON THIS TOPIC AND CAN NOT FIND ANY INFO THAT THE HELPERS ARE SUPPOSE TO HIT THE DOG TO THE POINT OF INJURY. ANY INFO WOULD BE HELPFUL.. SANDRA

No helper should hit the dog so hard that it causes injury. That is total BS. Some people will try to show off and be too hard on a dog that is a good dog to try and prove that the dog was not all that. As far as I know the stick hits are not designed to see how much pain a dog can take. It is a little added pressure for the dog and to check his courgage and fight drive. Even a hard stick hit that is properly placed should not injur the dog. Lets face it even the toughest dog in the sport today could be beaten off the sleeve with a hit in the wrong spot.

The USA rules allow for two stick hits at specific times in the protection routine as well as in the breed survey. Stick hits are placed across the withers and a rubberized stick is used in our area. Though various helpers can and should provide pressure on the dog, depending on the level the dog is at, no stick hit should be meant to injure the dog. If you have more questions addressing a specific incident, perhaps you should address it to the director of judges for the organization in question.

Under current WUSV (World Union of German Shepherd Clubs) rules, the rules which should be in force wherever schutzhund id done, the dog is hit twice in SchH1 and SchH2. During the reattack after the escape. In SchH3, the dog is hit 4 times. Twice during the reattack after the escape. And twice during the reattack after the long grip (courage test). Under SV rules, for breed surveys the dog is hit twice during the so-called attack on handler out of the blind. The hits are to be on the dogs withers, or sides. Not the head, not the feet and under no circumstances are they intended to or should they cause injury

The stick is padded and flexible, hence called a soft stick or softie. Next time you go to a trial or a club, grab one and do a self-test on your leg. Even a good jab is quite tolerable. The helper is only allowed to hit the area of the dogs shoulders/withers, as per the SchH rules. The number of times he is allowed to hit a dog per exercise is also determined by the rules, 2 hits. If the helper does it correctly there is no injury to the dog. No dog sport would intentionally allow a dog to get injured while performing in that sport. The animal protection acts would not permit that anyways. If a helper intentionally hurts a dog with a stick, tell him to get a different hobby or a join an SM club instead.

I HAVE A STICK AND KNOWS HOW IT FEELS TO GET HIT WITH IT. WELL IT HAS HAPPENED TO US TWICE. THE FIRST TIME WAS DURING THE BREED SURVEY IN MARCH OF 2005 FROM STEVE HOUSE, HE WAS NOT DRIVING THE DOG HE HIT HIM WHILE OUR DOG WAS ON THE SLEEVE WITH SUCH FORCE NOT ONCE BUT TWICE UNTIL OUR DOG CAME OFF OF THE BITE AND HELD UP HIS LEG, LIMPED OFF THE FIELD. THE JUDGE SAW THE STICK HIT WAS TO HARD AND NOT AT THE CORRECT TIME IN THE BITE WORK, HE LET US TAKE A BREAK AND HE COMPLETED THE BREED SURVEY THE SECOND TIME, BUT THE JUDGE SAID NO STICK WILL BE USED. A COMPLAINT WAS MADE WITH WDA AND NOTHING WAS DONE, WE BELIEVE IT WAS COVERED UP BECAUSE CINDY PETERSON WAS PUTTING ON THE TRIAL AND SHE IS ALSO ON THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS. WDA MADE EXCUSES FOR OUR COMPLAINT. IN DEC, 2005 OUR DOG COMPETED IN A CLUB TRIAL WITH SCH. USA AND MADE A GOOD SCORE WITH THE CORRECT STICK HIT. IN APRIL 2006 WE COMPETED IN THE WDA NATIONALS, 94 IN TRACKING, PROTECTION STARTED OUT GOOD, THE HELPERS IN THAT TRIAL WERE SO BAD, THEY WERE NOT DRIVING THE DOGS CORRECTLY, THE STICK HITS WERE INCONSISTANT. YOU COULD TELL THEY WERE SHOWING OFF. OUR DOG TOOK AN OTHER HARD STICK HIT. HE WAS INJURED AND WAS DISQUALIFIED FROM PROTECTION. THE HELPERS NEED TO BE TAKING THE RESPONSIBILTY FOR INJURING A DOG. WE SPENT A LOT OF MONEY TO GO TO THIS TRIAL AND WE WERE OUT BECAUSE OF THE HELPER. WHO IS TELLING THE HELPERS TO HIT THESE DOGS THIS HARD? WE HAVE HEARD IT IS THE JUDGES, BUT I CAN NOT SEE THAT. I BELEIVE THAT THESE HELPERS ARE DOING THIS ON THERE OWN. WE HAVE ANOTHER COMPLAINT WITH WDA AND THIS TIME WE WANT SOME ANSWERS AND SOMETHING TO CHANGE. THIS DOG WAS NOT CHEAP, SOMEONE IS GOING TO TAKE A STAND ON WHY OUR DOG CONTIUES TO GET INJURED IN PROTECTION, AND WHY OTHER DOGS ALSO GET INJURED. SANDRA

Sandra, We had some good posts on how the stick hit should be done. A good/qualified helper can test a dogs courage by his mere presence and how he presses the dog during the drive without even having to do stick hits. But the rules require it. Some bit of advice, your dog is your companion and your friend so the next time some helper is showboating at the expense of injuring your dog go up to him, ask him for the stick then beat the shit out of him with it. Injurys happen, trial or breed survey, that comes with the territory. BUT! if the injury is because the helper was showboating I have no problem putting the stick on him. Uwe

Sandra, I encourage you to file complaints IF you have video and/or witnesses. In my experience with USA events, most helpers and all judges I have worked with, to date, have tried to be fair to the dog. It is not about injuring the dog or trying to drive the dog from the field, but to give the dog a chance to show its training,and courage. Stick hits are a part of this even though in some ways I do not like it. A dog who is really into it and has been properly trained and is used to strange helpers and some pressure will generally not react to the hits. As Uwe says, the mere presence a helper brings to the field is often enough to intimidate a dog who has not had good training. In every trial and breed survey of which I have been a part, the judge (all SV judges) was sure to talk to the helper and make sure the helper knew what was to be done and how hard the hits were etc. I can not comment on the situations you describe above, but this is and should not be about injuring dogs. However, as Uwe has also said, I certainly have also seen helpers inadvertantly step on a dog or otherwise accidentally injure a dog. In one case, I saw a helper step on the paw of a dog as she engaged and it hurt and she was dismissed. Unfortunately, the owner had also spent a lot of money and come a long way to participate. The judges did not give the dog or any other dog that came off the sleeve a second chance. So, in some ways, you were very lucky. If WDA has helper issues, more people who are involved should raise the issue. A good helper will try very hard to be fair to the dog, work it properly and safely. None the less, it is an activity and things can and sometimes do go wrong. Good luck,

If you have questions or issues with WDA helpers, you need to approach Mike West or some like person in that organization .. I believe he is the DOJ for WDA?? I personally do not know of any helper who would intentionally hurt a dog but I'm sure there are some.... It is our job to be sure we have checked out who the trial helper will be and determine if they are going to work our dogs or not...

OR GET A DOG THAT WONT ACCEPT THAT BULLSHIT!!! MY TWO BOYS WOULD NEVER ACCEPT THAT.....