Does $$$ make the Breeder or Dog? - Page 1

the topic of money and what is spent on dogs has been brought up here lately.

I've got a question, just fishing for everyone's opinions.

is the quality/ability of the dog determined by its value$$? I know people will say that the dogs value is determined by its abilities and accomplishments, but I've seen too many sold for more $$$ than most people see in a year or two of working, and the accomplishments mean nothing, VA dogs who run off the field, dogs with SCH3 who can't even perform a simple obed. routine, dogs who can't even produce. 

also what makes the breeder?  or better yet, who gets to be a breeder?  is it the person who struggles for decades and has passion for the breed but can't afford the top V and VA breeders, or is it the person who can afford to buy the VA dogs and breed to the top dogs but still not know squat about them?

I've seen people produce nice dogs, true representatives of the breed with lines most wouldn't even touch on here, and then people buying titled dogs just to breed, and they get no where.

Uber Land,

I don't pretend to know what people think when it comes to buying dogs. I only know the reasoning behind what I have purchased. But I would think most people would feel the same way. There are certain qualities or inherit abilities that I absolutely insist on in every dog I have. Have all the dogs I've had, stand up to these standards? No. But I don't have them long. I can only have so many dogs so the ones I have have to satisfy me, no one else. When I see a dog that has what I like in a dog , he is worth what I can afford. Now saying this I drove several hundred miles one time to look at a ZVV3 stud that had not only produced excellent dogs in the Czech Rep., all over Europe, but here in the states as well. When My wife and I got to the place that owned him we spent alot of time looking at all thier dogs. I had already been studying this dog for a long time. The owners purchased this dog for 16,000 dollars. and I know they have no regrets. I had purchased a pup from this litter and was going to pick her up, and did so. When we left for home my wife asked me ,well what did you think. I told her I have just seen the best female I ever saw in my life, and she about fell from the seat. This female was 6 years old at that time. The dog is 8 years old now, not for sale but that dog to me is almost priceless. If--- I could afford her I would have bought her and never bred her again, Just because she had every thing I desire in my dogs. Unfortunatly I can't afford her. Would anyone else value her as much? I doubt it.  Hank

Some people are impressed by money, others see it for what it is.
The answer to your question depends on what kind of person you are, easily impressed, or a person of substance.

Neither. Price is determined by the market, therefore by the consumer. This is, of course, within reason. I can't speak for anyone else, but I can't afford to buy a 1,500-2,500 puppy, feed her, pay for her vet bills, pay for her health screening, entry fees, training costs (fees, equipment, travel), trial/show/koer entry fees (plus more travel cost/time off work), applicable handler fees, then pay a $800-1200 stud fee, travel to the stud if necessary, cover breeding/pregnancy/whelping vet bills, then here comes puppy food, registration, check-ups, chips/tattoos, shots, thousands of hours- then only charge $500 a puppy. As much I would love to make a nice dog affordable for absolutely everyone, I am not independently wealthy and I would go broke. As for older puppies/trained adults- this takes time as well. The cost of raising a dog is not cheap, this is something a buyer of an adult dog should expect to have included in the price tag, there's just no getting away from it. Several hundred a year for food/vet. Now training. If your talking any kind of bitework, the handler AND the decoy must be recompensed. How much does training cost? What are some of you paying at your obedience trainer, how much do some of you pay your decoys, per year? I just added it up, puts me at a little over $1k a year for my decoy alone, per dog...and I do my own obedience/tracking. Now, a private lesson with me at work costs $55 an hour, a weekly lesson after one year would have cost over $2800. So if someone is a novice and needs a trainer every step of the way, they really not going to save much money doing it themselves, it will just be spread out over time. Are there rip-offs out there? God, yes! $40k for a PPD is laughable. I've been to those sites. The dogs are nothing special genetically whatsoever. We all know about all the big dollar paper SchH3s out there. Breeding dogs are whole different story. What someone is willing to pay to have unlimited access to one dog's genetics is a matter of individual taste/value. But before anyone starts choking (or sneering) at a 5-12k price tag, consider what it costs if it's done right. We needn't assume that EVERYONE in the dog world is a crook just because they'd like to break even or even *gasp* make a little money on their hard work providing someone else the convenience of not having to do it themselves, and removing the crap shoot that is puppy buying.

I thought that the dogs made the breeders some money!?!?

I must be doing it wrong, then Don, I'm in the red and have been for years.

Uber, IMO, what makes a good breeder is the willingness and ability of someone capable of putting something into the GSD, rather than just looking for what they can get from it.

Money allows access to a greater number of dogs and breeding. But it will still come down to one's ability to recognize the traits they want in their program. Whether they have one dog or many.

A mistake I have made (and see many still make) is thinking I could start with a poor quality GSD and by some miracle "breed her up". It will seldom, if ever, happen.

Rik

I disagree Rik,
It's all about the breeding that makes great dogs and great breeders.
It's always breeding up no matter where you begin.
Money is only a distraction from the real issue.
Show me the dog first, then discuss money.

Breeding up?
It happens everyday.

hello moons, I o not present my views from my back yard.

Maybe we view "breeding up" from different perspectives.

For me, it is presenting what I breed (or present) against what others consider is correct.

I do not only  present my opinion of what is correct in my mind (or in my yard). .

I present it to the world to judge.

You only present a mouth, with no GSD to validate your yakker.

Rick Atchley