what to look for in a 6-9 month old? - Page 1

few questions, 1 what spectrum of behavior do you expect to see in a 6-9 month old pup bound to do police dual-purpose work? 2 do certain traits start to show later in life, for example after a year? 3 can a playful pup be bound to do police work or do you expect aggression at an early age? 4. what are the thoughts on soft dogs for police work? thank you, kosta.

Hi Kosta, this can be a funny stage for a pup ( young dog). The adult teeth are coming in and experiencing growth spurts. Remember they are still young mentally, even though they may have good size to them. Some folks apply too much pressure and stress too soon and ruin a potentially good dog. They can also go thru a spooky or fearful period at this age. I personally like to see a happy confident puppy. I Expose them to as many situations as possible. Police K9's may/will have to walk on slippery floors, climb up stairs, be carried up a ladder, be comfortable around gun fire, go into dark stairwells and doorways. With the group I train with we often see imported dogs that have excellent grips on the grass. When this dog is placed indoors or on slippery surfaces the grip is not confident and sometimes refuses to engage. I would not work a young dog in aggression until the grip work is confident and complete. Often times when a young dog is worked in aggression too soon the grip will suffer and the young dog will think a poor grip is success. Soft dogs may work out in detection work but not for patrol work. Once a again detection dogs work in various environments a well. If the dog is cowering because of loud noice, it can not concetrate on the task at hand. Kyle

thanks Kyle when i talked about softness, i meant softness towards the handler; a dog that is not dominant towards the handler but soft to the point where he would squirt a few drops of urine when he greets you after not seeing you for a while do you ever encounter a situation where you can't really tell what the dog will turn out to be when he is a young pup (6-9 months), and still surprise you as he matures? thank you again, kosta

makgas -- the answer to your question -- IT DEPENDS-- 50 % genetic , who and what the dog is itself as a resulting progeny and 50% on experience and environment -- two dogs i have -- the foirst a karthaogo / korbelbch lineage -- at 10 months old he was helping in a police demo apprehending .. will tear your clothes off to find his ball at 8 months -- this dog never had so called drive promotion -- htis dog lives and just is pure motivation to work - was doing bite suit work by 1 year old and doing protection of handler exercises by then with escorts ---but this is not all common for the GSD -- the other GSD i own a Larus v. batu son showed very little drive , some motivation for rag work but not ballistic , he is now 3 -- two weeks ago i worked him -- he bit a sleeve on my helper with a hard , very very deep crushing bite , intermediate sleeve he black and blued the arm --- i now have him primed on a leg tug and shortly he will be on a bite suit too !! --the moral : one needs to understand the dog itself , genetically , emotionally , spiritually , mentally and physically -- and cultivate / nurture the potential -- as is said a good dog can be made bad and a weak dog can be made good if the genetics is there -- keep in mind you cannot make a dog what it is not but then again i have seen in my years of training MANY MANY a good dog just given up on , way before it's years , never given a chance to mature and blossom --

ALPHAPUP made some interesting points. I think the pedigrees of the dogs used in Alphapups examples are telling. I personally have a pup with a 4-4 inzuct on Fado vom Karthago. This pup is super, very confident and on a trial sleeve at 6 months. I have a female that has really nice grips, nice social aggression, really brings the fight and initiates the fight with the decoy. SHe is handler soft. She used to urinate in submission when she greated me. She is still handler soft in obedience and tracking but not in obedience during grip work. She stopped the urinateing when greating me when I stopped making eye contact with her and adjusted my body language and voice. I was unaware I was causing the submisive behavior until my wife pointed a few things out to me. Give your pup time. By the time they are 18 to 24 months you can make a more informed determnation on character and suitability. You can confidently weed out dogs before this time period but you may loose some good candidates in the process. Kyle Kyle

Thanks for the comments; yes, this dog of mine i have right now is peculiar in his own ways; nice prey drive and nice grips but soft with me; would show avoidance if i put a little bit of pressure on him; he's smart that way; he's not crazy that his prey drive would take over to the point of desensitization, but would persist; his grip is not super hard but it is still nice; for some reason i feel he is a slow maturer. his nerves are super in different situations, like he doesn't care my questions came all along stemming from the submissive behavior he sometimes displays with me; can't fully read the guy yet, and this little guy is different from any dog i've had... he has asko in 3, orry 4, and 5-5 on fero; what is your take on the bloodlines? kosta

Koos Hassing has used Fero line breeding with much success. I like Orry alot! Asko has produced many dogs that have competed at the LGA and BSP level. I'm also a fan of Aron vom Brachelor See and his brother Amigo. I also like the Wanner Hohen and Schmiedegarten kennels. They produce dogs that can do high sport and have good nerve for police work. I have a pup line bred 4-4 on Fado vom Karthago. Really nice temperment on the puppy. Fado has produced KNPV GSD's! My view of training schutzhund is to use it as a tool to evaluate a dogs ability to go beyond the sport. Not as a hobby for gaining high points. Training for points dogs is why law enforcement in the USA looks down upon schutzhund. Kyle

I have two germans shephards as well and they could be more different i agree with Alphapup as well. I have a Quirin vom Hochmorr female who has been a very drivy dog since day one an still bring a long of energy and drive to the work very strong prey drive. I have larus son who is very laid back not much prey drive but his defensive drive is of the charts as well as a strong bite. You would no it from his demeanor but both can do work just different attitudes about it. Let the puppy mature and see how they progress