Equipment used during protection training - Page 1

In a recent posting the discussion began about the use (or not using) a harness during protection training. Of course the ever popular yet seemingly ambiguous statement of "depends on the dog & depends on what you are working on" comes in to play here BUT......

What is your equipment of choice (Harness, thick flat collar, fur saver, pinch, etc....) during protection training AND why...?

I'll take it one step further when do you transition to/from one to another...?

Harness give the dog more power

Depends what you're doing in protection, always start with a harness, later can move to an agitation collar, but if the collar is taking the dogs wind away, may still need harness.  A seasoned dog can work on any collar.

I always start with a wide collar and make sure the dog associate the collar with protection work.  I like to begin that way because i use a collar when i have my dogs in public.  So i think its best to stay with what you use in real life and train the same way.  But if you want to use a harness thats your choice i leave that up to the dogs owner with they want to use unless the dog has a issue with one or other.  All the other equipment is stuff for certain traing drills and you trainer should have it all unless you plan to do training yourself.  And if that is your plan you can go a couple of ways either get it all or just the stuff you have to have.  If you plan on doing that pm me and i will give you all the help i can.

I always begin the protection phase on a harness for back pressure and to allow the helper/decoy to work the grip if needed. Sure there will be variances between sport & LE/PPD training scenarios. I think it was Steve1 who was saying he often does not use a harness and I was hoping he could expound further (I did not want to hijack the original topic). My mind set for my sport dogs is to remove as much equipment and have as much of a trial picture as soon as possible without losing the ability to guide or correct the dog. I still have much to learn but feel I'm on the right track.

Thanks for the input

I always start out with a harness with a young or new dog.  Later,  I will go to a flat collar or even a prong collar. 

I never got the association of "putting a certain collar on the dog for protection work."  When I give my dogs a "watch him" or "packen" (bite) command the dog doesn't need a special collar to react or work. I use the same flat leather collar on my dog for everything he does.  The same collar for tracking, detection work, it's on during obedience, and for protection work.  As a matter of fact the collar rarely ever comes off.  

It is very interesting to me that some people put a special collar on their dog so the dog knows "it's time for protection work."  I really just don't get the concept and I have heard people talking about this for years.  If I give a command my dog responds regardless of the collar or harness it is wearing.  I have never had a dog that associated a collar with anything other than "let's go to work and what are we doing?"   I simply tell the dog what the task is and he does it, perhaps I'm too lazy to have special collars for protection, tracking, obedience and detection work. 

I would love to understand the reasoning behind it.  This is a sincere question, for those of you that do this please don't take it the wrong way.  There is no offense intended and none should be taken.

Just curious,

Jim

My thought on that is they are just giving the dog an extra cue - I never intentionally did it but most of my dogs when they hear the jingle of the buckles on the protection harness it starts a riot. They just make the association with that sound and they know what comes next. Soooo what I'm getting at is that some folks probably do something like that to signal to the dog get up and get ready to work.

Jim, how many inches wide is your dogs collar? Is it one of the super thick wide ones or more "regular"?


Thanks

My leather collar is about 2" wide, not super wide.  If it is too wide it will restrict the dog's breathing as well. 

I see what you are saying, but there are folks that feel putting on the "agitation" collar is needed to work the dog or take the dog out in public and for it to be protective.  I guess I just don't see the need to cue the dog with a piece of equipment.  I do so many varied tasks with my dog that I am not about to change equipment or have my dog rely on various collars to work.  Everyday I do narcotics searches of  vehicles, which is a positive, high drive, focused task these searches have immediately turn into an apprehension of a fleeing felon.  The only thing that changes is the command and it happens very quickly.  The dog reads body language and behavior and switches over instantly.  I know some officers who remove the leather collar before a narcotics search, personal preference.  I leave it on and have the dog perform all of his jobs wearing the same equipment.  The only thing I do differently is reward the dog with a tug for dope work and a ball on a rope for everything else.  The dog doesn't care what he gets as a reward as long as he gets something.  The tug is more manageable to reward with while on the side of the highway as it won't bounce into traffic if I make a bad throw or the dog misses.  

JMO,

Jim 

Jim thanks for the info - I see the difference of uses clearly.

You & your dog (and others) are in the trenches on a daily basis (so to speak) while some others dogs are couch potatoes Monday thru Friday then get to "play" Schutzhund (or whatever) on the weekends.
 
I'm probably going to piss some people off by saying that & I don't say it to knock anyone down its just different.  We all lead differnet lives and so do our dogs so the need to use different cues & equipment is real. 

I hope this does not get too off topic.....

I use a harness on young dogs but switch to ecollar and fursaver on older seasoned dogs.  I use the same collar I use for obedience and tracking, nothing special or different for protection.  My dogs don't need any special or additional cues.  I do schutzhund.

i don't like agitation collars because I had a young dog who would strain so hard against them he broke the blood vessels in his eyes.  This was a 2 inch collar.  

Switched to a harness and never looked back.

To each, their own, what works best for some dogs and some people is not what works best for everyone.