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by pplsadvocate on 04 October 2010 - 16:10
I just wanted to get it out to the public that Von Waldhimmel German Shepherds and Gold Berg German Shepherds partner A LOT in their breeding programs. If you are not comfortable with buying a puppy from the Gold Berg breeding program I would highly suggest not purchasing a puppy from the Von Waldhimmel program. If you compare their websites it's obvious that they work together and use each others dogs frequently.
I personally find it dishonest that Mary Bryant, from Von Waldhimmel, will take a puppy that has been posted for sale on the Gold Berg website for days (as part of the Gold Berg breeding program) and then move it to her website as a product of her own breeding program, prefacing it as a puppy from her sire. I understand that it might be a Von Waldhimmel sire and a Gold Berg dam, but if that puppy was born and originally established as part of the Gold Berg breeding program it's dishonest to mislead Von Walhimmel clients into thinking they are getting a "full" Von Waldhimmel bred puppy. Sure the system works great for Gold Berg/ Von Waldhimmel when they need to move a puppy they can't sell under the controversial Gold Berg title, but my opinion is that clients shouldn't be fooled into taking a puppy from a breeding program they didn't originally want; especially when the puppy costs over a thousand dollars.
I'm sure Von Waldhimmel will refute this claim; but I as a buyer, wanting to know all the facts about the integrity of a breeding program before I purchase a puppy, would like to be aware of the business practices that are easy to miss without deeper investigation.
I personally find it dishonest that Mary Bryant, from Von Waldhimmel, will take a puppy that has been posted for sale on the Gold Berg website for days (as part of the Gold Berg breeding program) and then move it to her website as a product of her own breeding program, prefacing it as a puppy from her sire. I understand that it might be a Von Waldhimmel sire and a Gold Berg dam, but if that puppy was born and originally established as part of the Gold Berg breeding program it's dishonest to mislead Von Walhimmel clients into thinking they are getting a "full" Von Waldhimmel bred puppy. Sure the system works great for Gold Berg/ Von Waldhimmel when they need to move a puppy they can't sell under the controversial Gold Berg title, but my opinion is that clients shouldn't be fooled into taking a puppy from a breeding program they didn't originally want; especially when the puppy costs over a thousand dollars.
I'm sure Von Waldhimmel will refute this claim; but I as a buyer, wanting to know all the facts about the integrity of a breeding program before I purchase a puppy, would like to be aware of the business practices that are easy to miss without deeper investigation.
by VonDerPosconsii on 04 October 2010 - 16:10
wow, I never noticed that.
by Dog1 on 04 October 2010 - 16:10
Many breeders share resources in Germany. Litters born are often registered in friends kennel names. It's not such a big deal. If you look across the US there are other examples too. GSDs are a team effort. Decide if you like the breeding and the puppy as well as the business practice of the breeder you are dealing with and decide from there. Sharing resources is not necessarily a bad thing.
by Brandi on 04 October 2010 - 18:10
To add to Dog1, if both breeders are honest, breed to the GSD standard, and have excellent ethics, who cares. If you don't like a sire, dam, or breeder just find another one. I agree with Dog1 all the way!
by MsColeson on 04 October 2010 - 19:10
I agree with Dog 1 and Brandi. It is a good thing for breeders to work together and to share resources - that are good and trying to breed nice, healthy pups.
If you don't agree with that method of doing any kind of business, then go somewhere else!
There are many breeders out there doing it all alone with no help, mentors or advise from anyone!
It's an expensive and very complicated job to try to breed for healthy, good temperaed, vigorous and correct structured GSDs. There are some folks out there also that think they know it all and don't ask for help or share resources. What about those folks??
If you don't agree with that method of doing any kind of business, then go somewhere else!
There are many breeders out there doing it all alone with no help, mentors or advise from anyone!
It's an expensive and very complicated job to try to breed for healthy, good temperaed, vigorous and correct structured GSDs. There are some folks out there also that think they know it all and don't ask for help or share resources. What about those folks??
by Mike88 on 04 October 2010 - 20:10
Dog1 and Brandi, you're right!
I can't see the problem. A friend used my male for stud and as I saw the puppies I decided to keep one. Now I have a puppy with a "foreign" kennel name and I have been breeding Gsds for over 30 years.
By the way, I worked for both ladies in the past and I only can say they 're both nice persons with a lot of knowledge of breeding!
Michael Eimer *real name*
I don't need to hide :)
I can't see the problem. A friend used my male for stud and as I saw the puppies I decided to keep one. Now I have a puppy with a "foreign" kennel name and I have been breeding Gsds for over 30 years.
By the way, I worked for both ladies in the past and I only can say they 're both nice persons with a lot of knowledge of breeding!
Michael Eimer *real name*
I don't need to hide :)
by Ibrahim on 04 October 2010 - 20:10
There is no problem in cooperation between breeders, but a puppy when advertised for sale by any breeder/kennel should have its name and kennel as per its registration on the official papers. Just a thought.
Ibrahim
Ibrahim
by pplsadvocate on 16 October 2010 - 15:10
Just to clarify.. I'm not saying their is anything wrong with collaborating with another breeder. I was simply getting out to general GSD consumers on the market that their is a strong kennel link between Von Waldhimmel - Gold Berg. Due to the fact that the Gold- Berg kennel is associated with a huge ethical law suit in her breeding program, which obviously still plagues her ability to sell all her puppies on the market now, I as a "non-breeder" consumer would like to know who my potential breeder was frequently doing business with.
It's is MY personal opinion that typically you see people with similar breeding programs/ethics breeding with one another. Just for fun.. take a look at the Gold- Berg sales agreement for new puppies and tell me that doesn't have "I've been sued for ethical reasons" all over it. ;)
Why would I want to take a chance with an unethical breeding program when their are other excellent programs in Oregon/ Washington?
It's is MY personal opinion that typically you see people with similar breeding programs/ethics breeding with one another. Just for fun.. take a look at the Gold- Berg sales agreement for new puppies and tell me that doesn't have "I've been sued for ethical reasons" all over it. ;)
Why would I want to take a chance with an unethical breeding program when their are other excellent programs in Oregon/ Washington?
by Two Moons on 16 October 2010 - 16:10
hey,....in the end......it's really all about selling puppies isn't it...
oh the Glory.
by Mystere on 18 October 2010 - 16:10
Deleted.
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