Koehler Method: Aversion Therapy for Unwanted Consumption - Page 1

I made this as a comment on another thread and then decided to go ahead and make a Topic for this specific subject.  If anyone has anything to add; good, bad, or ugly, on the Koehler Method feel free to chime in with your thoughts or experience.



A couple of people have mentioned the Koehler method of using an electric fence charger as a useful tool to teach dogs not to eat food and other tasty things that they might find laying about or that someone has offered them. It occured to me that not everyone would know what an electric fence charger is or just how you use it to teach a dog not to eat what you do not want it to.

Check this link out to learn the basics of what fence charger does and how it is wired.

www.alwaysonsalepetsupplies.com/product.asp


This is a pretty low priced unit, basically the first cheap one with a basic explanation of how they work that I came upon. So far as wiring goes you must use an insulated wire from the charger to the morsel, which is then becomes the electrifed object laying in wait for something to complete the circuit to "ground".

Anyhow, instead of using the charger to energize a perimeter fence of exposed wire suspended on insulators you use it to energize the substance that you would like your dog not to consume. The "food" must be placed on an insulating material (wood, plastic) and when your pooch touches the food with any of his mouth parts, nose, etc....KERPOW! he receives an electric shock which is not harmful as his body completes the electrical circuit.

This method can be used with any virtually any food item or liquid (anti-freeze for example) and I think you could wire such tasty morsels as cat turds to induce a strong aversion to such items. I would think that this method could be used to teach a dog that the safest place to eat anything is his food bowl. I am not sure if dogs are smart enough to eventually figure out what is "hot" and what is not. Maybe somebody else knows and could chime in. I have seen previous threads addressing poop-eating dogs and wondered if this might not be an effective device/technique to dissuade that behaviour as well. Dunno....but it might be worth a try.

For those who like to hear clicking sounds when they train, like Hans, electric fence chargers make a nice clicking sound when they are on, but this should be kept out of earshot of the dog.

SteveO

WARNING: If anyone attempts to teach an aversion to Anti-Freeze using this method it should be a completely supervised process that allows no room for error. Anti-Freeze is lethal to dogs and if this method is used to teach an aversion to it Take No Chances by constantly watching the 'lesson" and removing the anti-freeze when the lesson is over. Non-toxic substances do not require constant supervision.

Hot topic?

I remember hearing of a guy who didn't like the local male dogs peeing on the front of his store, so he rigged up a similar device, using a large battery. When the dog lifted its leg and urinated, the circuit was completed.

I'll bet there weren't many male dogs that forgot THAT lesson in a hurry!  

I had a GSD that was a real garbage hound. I tried to deter her from picking up food outside the home by dipping hot dogs in red pepper. Didn't work. She'd just paw at the hotdog until most of it was wiped off on the ground.

When I saw that thread on adversive techiques, Kohler immediately came to mind. He said one of the neat things about it was the shock didn't actually occur until the food was in the dog's mouth, thus reinforcing the connection between the food and the unpleasant experience.

@DDR DSH

Good idea on how to expose a dog to the scent of Anti-Freeze without actually exposing a dog to the risk of ingesting Anti-Freeze.

Better safe than sorry, and if the dog learns to associate the scent of anti-freeze and investigating that scent with negative effects I'm sure that would go a very long ways to insuring that a dog never becomes an accidental (or deliberate) victim of drinking it.

@Hans

Hot as you want it to be....

You never know, some folks might not be following the other thread.  DDR already came up with a good idea to more safely use this technique to help create an aversion to Anti-Freeze..

I'm curious if anybody has used this method to dissuade dogs from poop-eating.  Not usually something that strangers offer a dog.  Who knows what else might come up? 


Peace

SteveO

I really have no interest in his outmoded, draconian methods.  I have the book, it's terrible with only a few redeeming qualities.  If one subscribed exactly to the methods and behavior remedies in the book, I would guess they'd end up with a so-so trained dog that needs constant repremands, a bad relationship, and poor trust.  I don't have any desire to shock my dog.  You could set a dog up with hot sauce or bitter spray on things if you wanted I suppose.

Some of Koehlers methods are great, while others are slow. The books are hard to read. But I disagree with you Doberdoodle. The electric fence charger was the only device at the time when he wrote about using it and some can be quite hot shooting a spark a half an inch. An animal that can't escape a fence charger can die from it. Modern devices are far superior now a days.

Hey Dobedoodle!

I'm not sure I'd make the statement that Koehler is as good as it gets in the world of dog training, but on the other hand if aversion to potentially lethal substances can best be attained by this particular technique it would seem counter benefiscial not to utilize it.  How might you best create a reliable and generalized aversion to Anti-Freeze, for example?
I don't know, but if somebody does I'm open to learning.

SteveO

Doberdoodle,
I have trained dogs using Koehler's methods exclusively. None were so-so trained or needed constant reprimands. Quite the contrary. I had no trust issues with any of them and we had an excellent bond. I still use it today a great deal but have modified it more to my tastes and with more modern techniques. I no longer train exclusively Koehler.

The method itself isn't the problem. It's the application of the method.

And keep in mind like Moons said, the dating on it. Modern equipment is a lot better than what was available back then. On the other thread I said I had used the fence charger method for proofing food refusal. It works and works well. It's not perfect but no single method is. I'd never have used it back in Koehler's day though. Just the wording of "it takes a lot of electricity to make a chicken even tingle" was kind of a turn off.

First off all you need is the scent, not a pan of standing anti-freeze. And yes I would use a shock treatment but if you read Koehler you do see all his warnings about technique, very important points not to observe. Yes times have changed but some of his basics still have merit. At least my dogs have done well on the techniques I used.

Steve, this is an extreme measure. However, I do not feel that it is out of bounds for a dog that may be put in danger from poisoning from neighbors or other exhibitors willing to do anything to win. I have seen it happen several times in the show ring. A dog is slipped a downer to give the competition an advantage.

I attended a show last year with a guy there who felt I had screwed him out of a very promising young dog. He was parked behind my van for several hours. Since I am not novice, I never opened the doors to allow anyone access to my dog.  His partner at the time (sitting in the van with him) later told me that the guy planned to poison my dog but never got the opportunity and cursed about it the whole show.

I do not agree with Koehler methods on many fronts, but concerning "poison proofing", I think he got it right. I have had many dogs that would not pick up a sirloin if not in their dish.

Best,
Rik