AKC Variable Surface tracking, TD or TDX tracking - Page 1

I'm curious if anyone here does any AKC style tracking?  I am interested in the VST or variable surface tracking specifically.  Has anyone done a VST trial or currently training for that? 

Jim

Hey Jim,

We have an AKC tracking judge in out SchH club and AKC tracking is MUCH harder than SchH tracking.  I think if you miss one article you fail!

Good luck and keep us updated if you try it!

Vickie
www.PowerHausKennels.com

Hey Vickie,
The VST tracking is definitely more difficult than SchH tracking.  I don't think a TD or TDX would be any harder than a SchH 3 or an FH.  The VST is more suited to the style of tracking that I currently do and we train and track on streets and parking lots regularly.  I think the VST would be an interesting thing to do.

Jim 

Not that this answers your question but here is a good article differentiating between SchH tracking and AKC tracking:

http://www.danika.com/library/trackdif.html

I hear from my friends who do AKC tracking that this is a good book:

http://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=dgt230

I have put AKC TDs on 3 Am-bred dogs (with lots of German lines going back to Rolf and Rosel Osnabruckerland).

One of my females (Carina Riesenblut, CD TD) was in the first AKC TDX trial. Pooped out towards the end as she was 8 weeks in whelp with 12 puppies. She was an excellent tracker. I had to believe her when tracking. When she earned her TD, the tracklayer had layed one leg close to and along a fence at the top of a hill. I thought to myself, "OMG, no one would be stupid enough to lay a track along a fence. I had not intended to keep this girl. She was six months old when her mom suddenly died and had no obedience training (didn't know the meaning of sit or down). In AKC tracking the dog ususally retrieves the article. I had to tell the judge that Carin would indicate the article by standing over it and not tracking any further.

What a coincidence that I kept this girl (by Ch Tucker Hill's Oracle UDT ex Andrea's Annelore UDT) as all of my Am-bred stock (including a schutzhund titled dog, Alex Riessenblut,  sired by Alex vom Nord Rasen Schutzhund 3)went back to her! Another dog from the same breeding of Oracle and Annelore also earned a TD later on. BTW, in AKC, it is acceptable for dogs to air scent and to "quarter" the track while tracking.

Psycht,
Interesting article comparing the two styles.  I have that book and it is good.

Louise,
Nice story about your dogs.  It's nice to have a good tracking dog.

Deacon,
I am familiar with Steve White's method and the HITT.  I really like that method and recently introduced it to our K9 unit.  We do scent discrimination tracking and work in an urban environment.  I have had many apprehensions tracking up to apartments in Section 8 projects.  I have apprehended armed robbery and burglary suspects after a track in all kinds of weather.  I'm sure it is the same where you work, most of the time the guys have a car waiting and flee the area in  the vehicle.  The times we are successful are during an unplanned event or when something disrupts a planned event and the escape route is cut off.  Causing flight on foot.  We have retrained our whole PD in the use of K9 and proper perimeter set up and containment.  This has greatly increased our apprehensions.  Myself and another K9 Officer do a Perimeter and Containment class for our Academy classes and have instituted new procedures over the past 2 years.  We have literally retrained our whole Dept on response to "hot" calls. 

Does your dog do a hold and bark?  

We have phased out the hold and bark and have gone to a find and "hold."  Therefore I will only track off lead in only a few rare circumstances.  My dog will target people on a track.  So off lead for me in neighborhoods and busy shopping centers is pretty much out.  Also, many of our tracking calls are for elderly Alzheimer's patients and missing children.    We have to track on lead to avoid people getting bit.  We will also track suspects who run from vehicles and may only have misdemeanor charges and suspects in foot pursuits.  When tracking a suspect I will need to stay at a run to keep up with my dog on the track. Although, he is an excellent footstep tracking dog when working a "real" track he  moves fast and I try not to slow him down.  On longs tracks I will occasionally down him so I can catch my breath then restart him.

We have done a lot of hard surface tracking and a lot of scent discrimination tracks.  I am always looking for new ideas to increase my knowledge and increase our units tracking ability.  I like the HITT method for getting the dogs nose down on cement and asphalt.  I will be incorporating the "Scent in a bottle" in future progressions then go back to our method of trailing training.  I am just trying to fine tune things and get some ideas from others who actively track. 

I am a firm believer that ideas can be learned from any one that works with dogs.  I am going to go to an AKC tracking club and see how they train for the VST.  I'm sure there are some techniques or ideas that I can use for our K9's.  I'm always trying to add new tools to the tool box.  Tracking is probably the most rewarding and frustrating part of my job.  I'd love to hear how you teach and train the hard surface trailing.

Jim

 

  Yes my teams are find and bite. However the ratio of find and bite during tracking training is almost non existant. I have never had a problem with targeting the wrong person yet, (fingers crossed). Depending on the misdemeanor on occasion we will track the perp (on) lead.

   We have the bloodhounds come in for lost children or alzheimers .

  We do the majority of our tracks on hard surfaces as well. After a track if we are not sucessful, we try and run a quick hot trail also.

  As the majority of our tracks are hot I spend the majorty of time setting them up 10 to 20 minutes old and roughly 3 blocks in length. On occasion I will let one set 30 minutes and maybe run a mile.

  Once a year I pull the teams off the street for a week and we go back to all vegetated non distraction tracking in the woods to get their noses back down as well as cleaning up any problems. These tracks will be done entirely (on) lead. The dogs really seem to enjoy this and the handlers as well.

Great thread.

Steve White's method is very interesting, I have been to his seminars. I have not had an opportunity to start a dog with his method, so can't really talk about it first hand. He's a great guy and talented trainer. We are lucky to have him in this area. 

I do both SchH and AKC tracking with my pit bulls. I train for SchH, to get the nose down, and then I can do pretty well in AKC. AKC tracks ARE harder than SchH , but are not scored, so it is apples and oranges. I've gotten 2 FHs, and a couple TDXs, and am getting ready to go for my VST with one pit bull. It's VERY hard, because the way it was set up. I think the pass rate i slike 1 to 5 %?  Its a shame the AKC did not think it through any better than they did when developing it. I believe they are coming up with a new urban track title which is not aged as long.

The issues I have in training are getting the dog to stay right on track at 3 hours. Not a problem at 1 to 2 hours, but when you get to 3, the dog starts to struggle on the cement surfaces.  Any suggestions? 

I really enjoy both venues. Just for the record, the hardest track I ever saw a dog complete was a TDX at Fort Lewis, very very hot weather, at noon, short, sharp cut over scotchbroom on dirt, and old great dane bitch who just struggled gamely on until done. It was something to see!