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by Ace952 on 03 September 2010 - 07:09
by geordiegaviino on 03 September 2010 - 08:09

by 4pack on 03 September 2010 - 13:09

by Don Corleone on 03 September 2010 - 14:09

by LadyFrost on 03 September 2010 - 14:09

by Keith Grossman on 03 September 2010 - 14:09

by Elkoorr on 03 September 2010 - 14:09

by VonIsengard on 03 September 2010 - 14:09

by Doberdoodle on 03 September 2010 - 14:09
Both of them are awful in their own way. Stillwell I have seen enough of to say she's a terrible trainer, I have seen at least 5-10 episodes of her show. Just look on YouTube on what she considers the worst case she ever had, hold on let me find it... Ok, I can't find it (was 2 adopted Pits, not even bad at all) but here is the #5 "Most Difficult Dog", and Victoria's solution for his biting is to literally DRAG him to the basement http://animal.discovery.com/videos/its-me-or-the-dog-diesel.html That is not a "problem dog" that is a Husky being an un-trained Husky!
She will never have real aggressive dogs on her show, and she will never provide real solutions for people. The solution for dogs barking on the porch? Every time they bark, raise your hands up in the air and make them go inside, with some dogs you will do that all day and it won't work, solution to a large dog biting his leash while you're holding it? Take the leash off! I have never seen her on her show with a trained dog. She also speaks to clients in a horribly judgemental tone. Notice in any of these shows, you won't see honest follow-up, and probably 8 out of 10 families have had no real progress long-term.
Milan, he's been renounced by every respected behaviorist and animal wefare group out there, read this, http://www.urbandawgs.com/divided_profession.html Dr. Nicholas Dodman has credited Milan with "setting dog training back 20 years." He has some really wacked-out episodes where he does strange things with dogs, and he uses alpha rolls which are proven not to be effective. But to his credit, he does keep a large pack of dogs in line, and he does have REAL issues on his show. Milan will take a dog for a month-long bootcamp, and what you see is a heavily edited show. He puts too much emphasis on having a dominating attitude, slinging around new-agey sayings about "energy" as if assertive energy is going to train your dog? The short-cuts are no good, the only way to train a dog properly is with a good foundation of obedience, not by tackling behavior issues with neck-pokes and weird contraptions. One of the worst episodes is where Milan used a "virtual reality chamber" on a terrified dog, putting a harness that had a loop under her tail, saying if she can't physically tuck her tail she can't feel scared, then flooding her on a treadmill with baloons and thunderstorm tapes. One thing of Milans I do like, is 1) Dicipline 2) Exercise 3) Affection, in that order, and I like how he gives Americans a wake-up call that they're not babies in fur, that they are animals who need a leader and exercise.
On the positive side, both of these trainers have brought dog training into the spotlight, the good thing they've done is encourage owners to think "Hey, maybe my dog is trainable."
Dog training in pop culture, and dog training methodology, are two of my interests, so I do have a lot to say on these issues!

by Doberdoodle on 03 September 2010 - 15:09
And doesn't hurt when the watchers get to see a dog attack Milan, this is why in 1 episode I saw, he intentionally nudged an aggressive dog with the side of his left foot, I don't know if anyone else caught that, but IMO he did it to provoke the dog and it tried to attack him. To protect himself, he held the dog out, therby choking it somewhat. Then of course some of the "dog-friendly trainers" cried "MILAN CHOKES DOGS!" He actually has an "I Hate Cesar Milan" club online with thousands of members

Another thing people need to accept is that training a problematic dog, there will be periods of stress for the dog involved, the disagreement would be how much stress is ok. Kind of an end/means debate. I think this is at the heart of the divide in dog training- how much stress is too much, and what justifies putting a dog through stress? Some trainers will say that any stress is wrong, once they see lip licking, yawning, or reisistance they say stop right there... but can you really work under threshold all the time and still accomplish what you want? It's a slippery slope, because trainers have used it to justify doing some pretty terrible things to dogs, in the name of saving their life.
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