Breeding "Fast Normal" or OFA Fair Hips - Page 4

Great coverage of the topic!! I agree with most of the comments and points of view and am so glad that they were brought up! It is so important to look at not only the whole ancestry/sibling picture, but at what the dog in particular is producing. What bothers me the most are the dishonest breeders out there that only tell you about the good and not the bad. I am thinking of one stud dog in particular, that I happen to know of first hand. It is a well know fact to anyone who has been around what he has produced with many and varied bitches... that he actually has close to 50% dysplastic progeny. This does not show up in any researchable form, as the ones who were looked at to have bad hips were never submitted and still many others were never xray'd at all. This dog was a top dog and was used extensively. It is a real problem for anyone trying to do research and find the best stock to breed/buy. I'm sure that this happens more often than I even WANT to know about. Very disterbing to me. So, my point is, do all in your power to find an honest open breeder, when looking for a stud or buying a puppy. Any dog who has been used extensively WILL have some bad hips to report. Debby

Well said debby!

Who the heck EVER heard of a joint being too tight?!! There is built in lubrication and even padding called the bursa. (hence- bursitis, the swelling of the padding- Causing pain) To think that laxity is a good thing is silly at best!! Muscles, joints and ligments all work together to make movement. Muscles and ligaments can make up for some laxity in the joint. But Laxity will always cause a problem at some point in time. It gives room for arthritis to form as well as many other forms of injury to the muscles and ligments trying to compensate for the joint's instablitity. A dog with this system working correctly and in harmony will be much more powerful and have tons more endurance. To put it in perspective: think about your car! If your car has laxity in it's moving and turning "joints" does that make it turn better or worse?!!!!!!!!!!!!

You don't want to talk automotive examples!!! A race car with too tight of a suspension will bounce across the tarmac at the slightest disturbance and will get out of control with poorly timed application of power. Meanwhile, a race car with a slightly looser suspension will absorb some of the track abnormalities and actually lead to faster laps. PS. My other hobby was building and racing cars. I actually hold a SCCA racing license and have helped build high performance street cars, oval track cars, road course cars, and drag cars. ;o)

who can that stud be??? hmmm

PPS. We're not talking extreme amounts of laxity, just more lax in their joints relative to dogs that move mostly in one direction. Joints are also shock absorbers, if there isn't enough "clearance" then contact will be made. If contact is made frequently enough, then there will be abnormalities appearing due to the body trying to fix or reinforce those areas. A strong jolt & contact can also cause injury. A slight bit more laxity will give more room for the muscles, tendons, fluids, etc to slow down and stop the bones from contacting versus one that is an extremely tight joint.

The laxity in a car can cause JUST AS MANY IF NOT MORE PROBLEMS! Has ANYONE, on this data base ever had joint problems from being too tight?!!!!!!!! Please speak up if so. I worked closely with a veterinarian who specialised in hip dysplasia research. His is even referenced in Willis's GSD Genetics book. NEVER, in my approximately 20 years of working/knowing with him, and having GSD people come from all over the country, did we ever have a dog with problems caused by joints being too tight! The cartilage's job is to cushion, as well as the bursa, and fluid. No bone to bone contact is ever a problem in a well formed joint. Hence, your car's "clearance" has nothing to do with a dog's joint.

See, here's part of the problem...you're thinking in extremes. I'm not talking too much laxity, yet you are. There can be a limiting of movement and damage from too tight, just as there can be excessive movement and damage from being too loose. PennHip evaluations go on laxity, so if everyone started taking them as gospel and went tighter and tighter, problems could arise. And btw, I'm not the one that brought automotive examples into it. ;o)

What I am saying it that I have NEVER heard of a GSD's hip joint being too tight and causing problems. Pure and simple.

Without getting into a "peeing contest", can someone please explain to me what is "suspiciousor"? Or what the hell that means? Debby, you won't have many people admitting that they have had bad hips in their breedings. I admitted it, but then I don't depend upon dog breeding to eat. I know of a popular dog in Europe also that is throwing 50% poor hips. I wonder Debby, if we are speaking of the same dog. I have friends there that have told me to steer clear of him, because it is a sure 50% chance that you will get very poor hips.