Breeders please answer this one - Page 1

I am a novice GSD owner; I have been visiting this forum very frequently nowadays to get information related to breed, health and many other issues related to training. I have seen many threads which are either started by the breeders or replied by them and I am genuinely impressed by their passion for this breed. I am sure being a professional breeder must be a serious commitment and full time job. I was wondering how many of you have selected GSD breeding as a full time profession? Or can a person take GSD breeding as a fun hobby? Well your experience with this profession will be valuable for novice owner like me or inspiring GSD breeder.

Thanks

For me, at least, the motivation behind having a few litters is NOT to make money off the litters. My motivation is this:

What GOOD breeder in their right mind would sell 3 puppies( maybe more) out of the same litter to one person, and knowing that person was going to sell them when they got older? Not to mention I don't have upwards of $5000 to plunk down on those puppies for the lines I like to train.

I am a trainer first and foremost and my reason behind breeding is so I can keep puppies back to raise, train and place with PDs. So many dogs are imported for this purpose with a greatly inflated price tag that it makes me sick. There are phenomenal dogs right here if you are willing to take the time to look. I have my connections all over the country that allows me to place these dogs as green, started and finished K9s, and I do it at a fraction of the import prices. I am not a broker, I don't buy and sell dogs tomake a buck, although I have had a few rescues come through that I have trained and placed with PDs. I have not found many rescues willing to work with someone who trains working dogs, they don't want the dogs working. The puppies I have placed in homes have all been carefully monitored for any problems that might come up. I have only had 2 come back. One was xrayed, evaluated and after concluding she didn't have enough drive for the work, was spayed and placed in a pet home where she still is. The other was a victim of our failing economy. He was evaluated and passed testing with flying colors. That dog passed Narc certs before he was a year old and is now working and also training for apprehension.

Every puppy that I have held back,not including the current litter I have, are all working for PDs plus a handful of rescue dogs.

Melissa

While I think that you can breed (not just GSD's, but any animal) as a hobby, I wouldn't call it "fun" as doing a good job may not be much fun beyond the satisfaction of doing the right thing for the right reason.  Breding for profit is an awful reason to tinker with a breed's gene-pool.  There are some niches where a "hobbyist breeder" could have some impact on the breed in the long run.

As an example, there are a lot of breeders, amateur and pro's, particularly in the showlines, who breed pretty much the same lines, over and over.   IMPO, they do this with little research or inspiration to breed an important dog/bloodline.  This has resulted in the loss of some bloodlines such as Hero vom Lauerhof.  A careful small/hobbyist breeder could take up perpetuationg such bloodlines, but in today's bifurcated breed market I'm not sure how much commercial interest would be in dogs that were bred to perpetuate the bloodlines of Vello zu den Sieben Faule, Frei von der Gugge, Marko vom Cellerland, Condor vom Falkenwappen  and/or Cäsar von der Malmannsheide, to name a few important lines that could/should be nurtured to maintain depth in the genetic pool.  I think that there are some on this forum who would probably spend on dogs that not only were firmly related genetically to these sires, but were also true to their type both physically and temperamentally.

However, such an endeavor takes time, commitment and research.  Not to mention the ability to locate whatever wisps of their bloodlines that may be available to rekindle them.

 I believe someone who makes a "living" off of breeding dogs, is lazy and likely doesn't have the dogs best interest at heart! (I know I just opened myself up to some vitriolic criticism, but that's okay). I will only buy a dog from a breeder who treats them as members of the family.  For thousands of years dogs have been used as tools by humans, this is fine by me but I draw the line at exploitation. Dogs are not here to be our money makers, they're here to be our companions and to help us achieve goals we're physically unable to achieve. A good breeder (more often then not) spends a great deal of money on their breeding dogs, they are lucky to break even after having a litter. Some people spend tens of  THOUSANDS  on just one dog, this is not easily made back by a litter or two of pups. While their are exceptions, people with large kennels, litters always available and no day jobs......tend to leave a bad taste in my mouth.

fun yes, but also very serious and dedicated, time-consuming and full of passion to do it right.  Also VERY expensive.  A breeder doing everything right will be very lucky to break even, that's the goal - to produce the very best dogs and not lose too much money doing it.

molly
Eichenluft
http://workinggermanshepherd.com

I describe breeding as "Anexpensive hobby you're lucky to break even from."

IMO there is no way to make enough money to live off dogs unless you have: 1) a huge commercial opperation like Kimertail or others; or 2) you're cutting corners.

Most breeders have a real job outside of the dogs. Sometimes two jobs to fund their addiction. *lol*



It's easy to simply buy titled dogs, never do anything with them, and sell the progeny based on the parents' reputation. This, to me, is not a good breeder. When someone advertises working ability of their progeny, but never holds anything back to compete with, how can they validate their statement?

I believe a good breeder of a working breed of dog like the GSD does at least the following:

1. Health-screens their foundation stock for common ailments
2. Is active in the show/competition circuit on a regular basis -- and places well!
3. Breeds with the idea of holding puppies back as future competition dogs
4. Has the money to spend on all the required prenatal care of a pregnant female
5. Has the resources to take care of any puppies until they're rehome

That's not cheap.

Plus the daily expenses like feeding, kenneling, replacing the toys and furniture they might chew up...

I breed because I enjoy competing with my own progeny, and proving to myself that I can produce a solid dog with the ability to work, and place well in shows. I enjoy researching bloodlines, spending the time mulling over pedigrees to find optimal combinations, trying them out, and seeing what the results are. I love to compete with my own progeny. It's a thrill when we make it to the podium.

I do it because, well, I like it, and it's worth the price to me.
 

molly said it best.

a professional breeder to me,,  spends time training, doing all the health checks, researches pedigree information, test and evaluates dogs for there breed worthiness, and a ton more to make the best choices.   in short spends a ton of time, energy, and sometimes money, to make the best possible breeding decisions.  its not the number of litters produced, but the quality of them that makes someone a professional, in my opinion.

john

I thank all of you for sharing your valuable opinion! It seems that many of you have other profession for ‘living’ as mentioned by ‘beast’, I was just wondering how much time actually you spend on your dogs? Let me clear myself first, I have bought 2 month old male GSD pup around a month back named TROY, Troy is very active pup with lots of energy. I spend about two hours every day with troy when I am at home, otherwise troy is with my wife and two daughters for the rest of the day. I still feel that the time I spend with troy is not sufficient and again I have to spend some quality time with my family. I was thinking that each of you may be having more than one dog and you are also involved in serious training what you people called as schutzhund and so many other activities you do for all the dogs. My question is how you manage all these activities with your profession after all we have only 24hrs in a day....lol
I will appreciate your views.

I am not even a breeder, though some day I would like to be. I have been involved with the breed for three years and still am not experienced enough to even think of breeding. There is so much to learn it can be overwhelming. When I am not training, I am studying pedigrees, watching videos of dogs in my own pedigrees, as well as trying to learn about other bloodlines out there.

I have three workingline dog from three years old down to 4 months old and actually chose to go from full time to part time at my job just so I could spend adequate time with each dog. The only reason I didn't "retire" completely is even though my husband makes decent money, they are expensive to buy, train, feed and vet. He likes them but is not interested in training or getting more, so I feel it's my responsiblity to work to pay for them.
I really don't see how anyone could make money off of breeding dogs (if they are breeding for the right reasons!)

And to answer your question, about how to manage your family, profession and the dogs?
I honestly cannot remember the last time I went to bed before 2 a.m., seiously :-)
Stacy

I believe that the term "professional" may be a bit blurred here.  I use it to describe those breeders who acquire all or most of their income from their dog related activities which include, but are not limited to breeding.  Others here may see the term as one that defines an approach based on a pursuit of excellence in all tasks.

Unlike Beast, and I don't mean any criticism, I believe that you can have more dogs than you should as you retire older dogs from competition/show and may be too involved in those endeavors to wait until your K-9 athlete passes on before starting the cycle back up.  I have two yuong dogs and when they retire from sport/show, I'll wait until one of them "kicks the bucket" before I consider a replacement.  As a matter of fact, Ares is a replacement for Evee.

I do concurr that specialized kennels which have more than a couple of litters per year may be losing sight of their objectives over pecuniary interests.  With my two young dogs, I'm finding out that time is indeed a finite resource.  At least if you're trying to do things the right way.