Linebreeding GSD

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by Marot on 07 July 2010 - 03:07

I have a question that I hope someone can help me with, I think it is an issue that has many different opinoions. I have had a deposit down on a GSD for sometime with a breeder whom I felt was reputable. We are now ready to bring a puppy home in Sept. and have recently found that there has been line breeding in the litter we are adopting from . The sire's grandmother is the same dog as the dames mother. So this pup's paternal great grandmother is the same as his maternal grandmother. I was very upset by this, but then read this is an acceptable breeding practice??? Can someone give me some feedback please!!!!

by k9queen on 07 July 2010 - 05:07

That's a 3-2 linebreeding. Its closer than I would feel comfortable with, but is acceptable. You need to look at the dog that is so heavily linebred on...is she a great dog? Is she the look, build and possibly size you are looking for? Does she have the type of temperament you are wanting? Did she have a good hip rating? If the answers to all of these questions are positive, then you most likely will be very happy with a puppy from this litter.

by Marot on 07 July 2010 - 05:07

Thank you for your response, the linebred dog is a great dog with good lines...it just seemed a little too close for comfort to me...would I insult the breeder if i asked her the specific reason/traits she was linebreeding for? You said it is acceptable, but you are not comfortable with it? I know her dogs have good temperaments (this specific one too) and hips. I felt they were excellent and responsible breeders, I have met all their dogs, they have been doing this a long time, so I was shocked when reviewing the pedigrees. Are they not reputable breeders or am I just ignorant to certain breeding practices, which may seem "not right" to the lay person?

by BlackthornGSD on 07 July 2010 - 06:07

A 2-3 linebreeding is the closest linebreeding allowed under the German SV guidelines. A reputable breeder might make such a breeding. But so might a disreputable breeder. Deciding to inbreed or linebreed might not be one person's preference but another breeder may believe it's the best practice to achieve his goals.

Nevertheless, I think it's perfectly acceptable to ask the breeder the reasons for doing a particular combination--whether or not the litter is linebred, there should be an answer that reflects thought and knowledge of the dogs involved.

Christine

by Marot on 07 July 2010 - 06:07

Thanks so much for your help!

by VomRuiz on 07 July 2010 - 06:07

I agree that it is acceptable, as well as a smart idea to ask the breeder their reason for linebreeding on that particular dog. My new male's dam is linebred on two particular dogs 2,3 which is pretty uncommon, but the breeder has been doing this for a very long time and the dam to my pup has proven to be an excellent producer, as were the two dogs she is linebred on. The sires to her litters have been very carefully selected, for obvious reasons.
As long as you are comfortable with the answer your breeder gives you, I wouldn't feel too weary about the pup. Especially if you study the dogs in the pedigree and what positives and negatives they are producing.
Good Luck!
Stacy

by DDR-DSH on 07 July 2010 - 09:07

In many other breeds, close linebreeding, inbreeding and multiple linebreedings are very common. Especially in some gun dog breeds, this is common practice. For some reason it's become "taboo" in GSD circles. Not sure why. If you especially value the characteristics of a particular ancestor, this is the highest tribute to it and the best way to keep it's influence strong in your program. My guess is that the bitch in question was a super bitch in some way... or a super producer.

It's been many years since, but I have done at least two 3-2 or 2-3 linebreedings on a common ancestor. I did it to preserve the genetic influence of that particular dog.

If there are known health problems in the lines, then inbreeding is not recommended. If there are problems that the breeder did not know about, then they will know very soon from inbreeding! But inbreeding is not inherently unhealthy. It merely limits the variables, genetically. There are no moral / social negative implications or effects in inbreeding of animals, as there would be with humans. Many of the really successful bloodlines within contemporary livestock breeds have been developed with the use of careful inbreeding.

In most wild species, I think that all of the individuals go back to a series of singular animals at various turning points in the evolution of that species.. which individuals had a mutation which made them better adapted to their environment than others of their kind. This is why wild species look so consistent. Cheetahs for example are very consistent in appearance and are known by DNA testing to have a VERY narrow gene pool. But, they are very healthy, very specialized and very successful in their adaptation.

by k9queen on 07 July 2010 - 13:07

I definitely agree with you asking the breeder the reasons for the linebreeding. I have never personally done a 3-2 or 2-3 linebreeding and might be a little uncomfortable with it, but wouldn't consider it out of the question if everything else was super. I agree that it is a much more common practice in other breeds. I think the best advice I can give you is that you have obviously done your research and your homework. You have now educated yourself on linebreedings too. Now question the breeder on the reasons for the linebreeding. If after all this, you still feel uncomfortable with it, then I don't recommend you get a puppy from this litter. My reason for this is that if you have any doubt whatsoever in your mind or are at all uncomfortable still, you are always going to worry about it. If for some reason something goes wrong with the puppy, even if it really has nothing to do with the linebreeding or if there is no way to say if it does or not, you will instantly blame the linebreeding and will be upset with yourself for not trusting your gut. I hope this helps. Good luck:)

by SitasMom on 07 July 2010 - 13:07

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/forum/48762.html

by SitasMom on 07 July 2010 - 13:07

BlackthornGSD.....

"A 2-3 linebreeding is the closest linebreeding allowed under the German SV guidelines".

What does the SV do if a dog's line breeding is 2-2? Is it still able to earn a VA or is it an outcast?

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