What is a reasonable score for SChH ? - Page 1

 If i am looking for a titled dog ( showline GSD), what is a reasonable score in their SChH?
Is it actually hard to pass the SChH 1/2/3? or does a dog really need to do poorly in order to fail?
How would you read the score from SChH and IPO? is IPO easier to get good grade than SChH?

Do you think being able to pass is already good enough or do you think the score plays an important part ?
 Because without details or commentsfrom the judge, i would never fully understand why a dog receive high grade, or a just-pass grade.

Please teach me more about the SChH and IPO system so I could select my future dog wisely.

Thanks.

Firstly take a look at this: http://www.gsdfederation.co.za/trial_rules/schH_rules_notes.htm

So as you can understand the depth of a SchH and related examination/s

Straight from Wikipedia and not far off:

"History
In response to political forces in Germany, in 2004 the Verein für Deutsche Schäferhunde (SV) and the Deutscher Hundesportverein (DHV) made substantial changes to Schutzhund. The DHV adopted the Fédération Cynologique Internationale (FCI) rules that govern IPO titles, so that at least on paper the SV and DHV gave up control of the sport to the FCI. The DHV changed the name of the titles from "SchH" (Schutzhund) to "VPG" (Vielseitigkeitsprüfung für Gebrauchshunde which roughly translates Versatility examination for working dogs). The SV has retained the "SchH" title names, but otherwise conforms to the DHV/FCI rules.

Description
There are three schutzhund titles: Schutzhund 1 (SchH1), Schutzhund 2 (SchH2), and Schutzhund 3 (SchH3). SchH1 is the first title and SchH3 is the most advanced. Additionally, before a dog can compete for a SchH1, he must pass a temperament test called a B or BH (Begleithundprüfung, which translates as "traffic-sure companion dog test"). The B tests basic obedience and sureness around strange people, strange dogs, traffic, and loud noises. A dog that exhibits excessive fear, distractibility, or aggression cannot pass the B and so cannot go on to schutzhund.

The Schutzhund test has changed over the years. Modern Schutzhund consists of three phases: tracking, obedience, and protection. A dog must pass all three phases in one trial to be awarded a schutzhund title. Each phase is judged on a 100-point scale. The minimum passing score is 70 for the tracking and obedience phases and 80 for the protection phase. At any time the judge may dismiss a dog for showing poor temperament, including fear or aggression."

So most people in the show world who have a desire to keep a certain accepatble level of working ability in their dogs would be more thatn pleased with 80-85 (A) , 80-85 (B), 90-95 (C). Any score with 250+ points which includes 90+points in (C), is a respectable score whether that is SchH1 or SchH3.

Good Luck

Apo, correct me if I am wrong please. Is it not true that, for example: You can pass a SchH2 with a 70 in protection but not be allowed to try for a SchH3 until you reach an 80 or more in protection? Therefore you must repeat the SchH2. Kind regards, John Kennedy

Not Apo, but yes, in Sch1 and SchH2, you have to have at least at 80 in Protection to go on to the next higher title.

"...and 80 for the protection phase. At any time the judge may dismiss a dog for showing poor temperament, including fear or aggression"

And must have ausgepracht (spelling) meaning pronounced; in the fighting if the dog is to achieve KKL1 in his breed survey.

But at all times in (C) the minimum is 80...as far as I know.

Regards

80 is the minimum to go on for the next higher title. 

If you score less than 80 in Protection you'll still be awarded at title at that level, you just can't try for the next higher level until you get at least at 80 in Protection.

I'll probably get castigated for this, but frankly, screw the scorebook--you need to see the dog doing the work.  If it's not possible for you to do so in person, then ask the seller to shoot a video of the dog being worked; the video needs to start out with--and this part is important--a close-up shot of the dog's tattoo and then the camera pulling back without interuption to show the dog and handler going into the work, so you can confirm that the dog you're watching is the one you're buying and the one that's delivered to you.  With the accessibility of YouTube these days, there's no reason a seller can't post a video of the dog doing the work for potential buyers to view.

There are tons of folks who can tell you about imported SchH3 dogs who get off the plane and suddenly don't know how to fuss correctly, or retrieve or track, let alone do good protection work (sadly, most of the reports of these dogs involve show line dogs, but I've heard of working line dogs with the same problems as well).  IMO, if the dog is just two years of age and already has it's SchH3, there's as good a chance as any that the training and the titling were rushed, and the dog may not really know how to do the work.

Why would you get castigated for saying that?  I think everybody on here has said that exact thing over and over again. 

I even said the same thing about the fake titles on the OP's other thread.