how to test a k9 for a live bite? - Page 1

So I have a question on the signals one looks for in a dog that would bite in a live situation.

What is the preferred method for proofing and or assessing the capabilty of a live bite situation and having your dog preform in the needed scenario?

curious to opinions- as well as those whom train for these real scenarios.

I would think the best indicator would be the dogs willingness.

Not sure what your trying to test for.

always test in real life scenarios in all surroundings and good social environment

An old saying from the military "Train hard in peace time, to be prepared for war"!! I use a lot of concealed wrap work, The visible sleeve, suit and muzzle are all cues that it is training. By the time the dog sinks his teeth into the concealed sleeve and realizes it you for the most part have been able to observe his desire to engage the quarry.

Set up scenarios that resemble real life encounters. Use as many different quarries as possible, and lastly. the dog must "ALWAYS" win!! Train in as many different areas and surfaces as possible. If you follow the majority of these suggestions he or she should engage with little to no hesitation.

You can get a good idea watching how well the dog goes after a "miss" with a bare arm.  Secondly would be using a muzzle and see how well the dog attempts and also "stays in" the fight.  The best way to tell a K9 will take a live bite and also evaluate the strength of the bite is a "philly wrap". 

It has been made of many things in the past but the K9 unit I train with use a neoprene gauntlet and an ace bandage or two.  The decoy has to suck it up...It's not much protection and the decoy will have something to "show" for it the next day....but it is the best way. 

Some depts. use the philly wrap for new handlers as a rite of passage or a test to pass to be a handler (how bad do you want to do this sorta thing).

First  sign is that the dog needs to be able to  bite hidden sleve.
Next signs you look for are willingness to bite the decoy without sleeve where the dog is tied and decoy offers unprotected arm but moves it away in last moment to avoid the bite.
Another sign is the method of training the dog to bite. I suggest Parkey  defense > prey bite method in opposition to often used prey > defense bite method. I will not describer here this method. If you are interested then call me or e mail me. This method generates from a early age proper mindset not to be toy sport dog.

As far as training set ups goes:
Avoid patterns.
The best way is hidden sleeve.
Dog must bite hidden sleeve, on strange decoy, passive decoy, sitting decoy, laying decoy, small exposed part of the  decoy, in strange place, strange situation to the dog.  
Always use different hidden sleeves (different smells. We have even used old carpets, peaces of thick leather or news papers rapped around the arm), different decoys, different areas, vehicles.
 Inexperience decoy (if you can find one) is the best decoy for proofing the dog.  
 Muzzle attack does not provide you with knowledge if the dog is going to bite for real. It is one of the aspects but not sure aspect. Some dogs will beat you to death with muzzle and than not bite for real. I compare it to the dog behind fence who shows major aggression but when you open the gate (take the muzzle off) the dog will often not do much. Muzzle attack , like fence agitation increases intensity and anger. 


 Prager Hans 
http://www.alpinek9.com

Well thank you guys-

I just posted this because its a hot topic is always will a dog bite for real in life situations. and the ever known statement of "you never know if a dog will take a live bite until he actually does it".

This topic came up in discussion yesterday as we were setting up scenarios in a buddy's shop - with agitation on concrete with sends in dark bathroom shower room with shower running(with door partially closed etc.... also hiding behind equipment for devolpin suspicion etc... and out into woods for area search and back for bites on unsteady trailers.
 
So i am just curious to what peoples thoughts are on the topic- ie preperation- and proofing/ tell tell signs...etc.....

Hans,
I am very interested in the methodology you mentioned. Is there any resources I can pull up so that you dont have to write a book in email?save you a little time- Il email you privately about it.

Hans, thanks for the input on the muzzle. I have been telling people this for years but seem to get those looks if you know what I mean!!