The origin of the domesticated dog - Page 1

For anyone who is interested:

"Borrowing methods developed to study the genetics of human disease, researchers have concluded that dogs were probably first domesticated from wolves somewhere in the Middle East, in contrast to an earlier survey suggesting dogs originated in East Asia."

www.nytimes.com/2010/03/18/science/18dogs.html

KTF,

Thanks for the link. This very elegant DNA research brings consistency to the archeological record.

Since I am from the Middle East, I hope one of my ancestors had a good role in originating dogs and therefore in happiness and wellfarae of human kind !!! Lol.

Ibrahim

At that point in time my of us may have had ancestors in the region.
It was good reading KTF

Thanks, KTF.  Good article.  I especially enjoyed looking at the graphic of the dog family tree.

Yes, but how would that explain the Goyet Cave, Belgium dog, dating back to the Aurignacian period, almost 32,000 years ago! This is much earlier than previous estimates given to middle eastern / asian dog origins, about 7,000 years.

http://anthropology.net/2008/10/18/a-possible-domestication-of-dogs-during-the-aurignacian-31700-years-ago/

Interesting. I did a major term paper for a class at UC Davis with the exact title above. One of the scientific studies I cited was above a find in Idaho of dog remains +/- 25,000 years old.
I wish I still had the paper. Hell, I wish I still had access to the UCD libraries!

S

I am really not surprised by anything, anymore. I've often wondered how fascinating it would be to know half of the unrecorded history of man.
There are many archeological finds now popping up, hinting at ancient trade and hunting routes long forgotten and never written down or committed to song and story.
There are many indications of trade between ancient China and North America. Some artifacts found in the deep interior of China are a sure sign of exchange of culture and goods between the people of these regions. Surely dogs were also exchanged.. and horses! But, that's another matter, for another thread..
I'll just say this much.. I adopted a couple of mustangs, and I couldn't help but notice how much some of them resemble native Mongolian / Chinese horses. Yes, I know about the Barbs and Andalusian types, brought by the Spaniards.. This is something else. There are quite a few native type Mustangs who look neither like an Andalusian, nor a Barb. They are a different type, entirely.
OK.. So, consider this..
Think how much the Chinese Crested and Peruvian Inca Orchid look alike. Then consider the Mexican hairless and the Chihuahua. This is no coincidence, I am sure. These dogs share ancestors, somewhere back in history.
The Goyet Cave dog is something altogether different..
I believe that they are an ancestor to some of our GSDs. Occasionally, you see a throwback to these massive dogs, from certain rare bloodlines, more likely.
I am looking for a picture I clipped from a National Geographic, years ago..
It shows the first Schutzhund sport, using a dog very similar to a malinois. This is depicted on an urn.. either Roman or Etruscan.
More likely that our dogs come from various lines, rather than one. Since those early times, a lot of mingling has occurred. And..
Many people do not know this, but Max von Stephanitz was / is known as a great cynologist. Much would not be known about European herding dogs, if not for him. He researched and documented a lot of herding breeds of his time.
He was a great man!

DDR,

Thank you for that link about the Belgium discovery. I want to read it and research that discovery as soon as I have time. I have the photo somewhere of the urn with the dog that I think you are speaking of. I think it might be Etuscan, but of course, these people were just north of the people we call Roman and were eventually assimilated by the Romans. They made some beautiful art and glass and jewelry. There are also some wonderful mosaics, mostly on the floor entry ways to Roman villas, that depict dogs who do not look much like the dogs of today. The text below "Cave Canem" is translated to mean "Beware of Dog." Have you ever seen those?

Like hominids, I think when all is said and done, the primary canine will have been shown to originate perhaps in Africa, but rapidly migrated to many places on earth and from there, just like on isolated islands, specific evolution took place leading to many differences. DNA studies will show us the way. There has been a new discovery, in New Guinea I think, of a fragment of a finger that does not belong to any of the known hominids. Have you read about that?

Hodie, I think I heard about that hominid discovery just the other day on the radio. The significance was that they believe it is proof that there is overlap of hominid species, that they co-existed rather recently.