Hypothetical breeding of Asko Lutter to his daughter?

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by Abhay on 16 March 2010 - 21:03

I'm well aware of the "According to Hoyle" Rules of GSD Breeding, but who can explain to me, why a breeding between Asko Lutter (when he was alive) back to a good daughter, would have produced anything but top class working GSD's?
Please, no Old Wives Tales of incest, but Real, Been there, Done That, experience.

by Nans gsd on 16 March 2010 - 22:03

Reasons why not: Deafness, blindness. heart murmurs, hip dysplasic, elbow displasia, hemophilia; degenerative myolophia, timid ness, aggressiveness; and if you cannot keep the complete litter and grow them up until all are temperament tested, hips/elbows checked, eyes clearances and tested for deafness then I do not recommend doing a father/daughter breeding no matter how good the dogs were and are.

by Nans gsd on 16 March 2010 - 22:03

PS: I forgot dwarfism and all the problems that go along with that mutated gene. Auto immune, pannus, seizures, skin problems, and so on. You need to read this forum regarding health issues and current health diseasters. Bloat, gastric torsion; the list goes on and on; when you water those genes down to nothing these can and will become the outcome.

by Nans gsd on 16 March 2010 - 22:03

The best dogs bred to the best dogs produce the above; OH AND i FORGOT to mention cancer (all types). These are just to name a few of the problems you could and will come up with.

by von sprengkraft on 16 March 2010 - 22:03

Everything would be magnified...be it good or bad. I have an Asko daughter, out of Anja vom Kassler Kreuz. She is a super dog, IMO. However.....I don't believe it all came to happen due to being an Asko daughter. He bottom side is pretty impressive, to me. I love Mink dogs!!

My father was a profession field dog trainer. German Shorthaired Pointers. He won every championship in the USA. Some many times.. Nat'l, Quail CH., German Pointing dog championship, etc. He was president of the national club and an American Field Judge.

I say this only .....for he was the king of in-breeding. He had a phenomenal dog, CH. Ib's Heir Biff. Biff won everything, many times over. Biff was bred to many of his own daughters...I called them hillbilly deluxe models. They won big, also. However, GSPs are a breed which hunts on instinct...and must be trained to hunt with a master. My dad only did forced retrieves...so, very reliable. Everything was magnified, as far as traits, in the get of Biff and his daughters. The only problem was, not many people could train them or handle them. They were a lot of dog. But, my father bought Biff at 11 mos. out, because his was out of control. Dad paid $500 for him.....a rack of bones, lots of pressure sores!! Almost caused a divorce!! Biff paid for himself many, many times over!! (for the All Age Championship stakes are all money stakes).

by Luvmidog on 16 March 2010 - 22:03

It has been done a lot of times in Germany that no one even can guess about.I was told that by a german judge in visiting one day , a Trial.

So nothing new.

Any old time breeder can tell you and BIRD Aviary Judges tell you that is what an EXPERTISE of the breed will DO and they know when and how to do it.

I have no idea what dogs were being talked about , but if a German Judge told me, then I believe him.

by von sprengkraft on 16 March 2010 - 22:03

You will produce the problems or strengths which the dogs carry. You are not going to produce things that aren't there.

I wouldn't do it, but I believe you will cause more problems from over-vaccination than inbreeding two dogs.

by Jenni78 on 16 March 2010 - 23:03

I think Abhay was looking for something a bit more specific, which is why he posted a specific dog...

Might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure he's well aware of the stereotypical reasoning against inbreeding.

by Abhay on 16 March 2010 - 23:03

It could be any good, solid, GSD. I just want to know why the big Taboo, regarding the GSD breed. Not hearsay, but actual proof a father/daughter, mother/son breeding would be such a disaster.

by Jenni78 on 16 March 2010 - 23:03

Right, but you threw in a name just b/c Asko had very good qualities/reputation. You were hoping to hear someone say "I bred so and so to his daughter and here's what happened" or something like that....or at least that's what I was hoping someone would reply. I think inbreeding is simply a distasteful concept that people can't get past enough to realize it has its purpose in knowledgeable hands. JMO. I certainly don't know enough to do it, but I think someone who really knows the ins and outs of their lines could do it w/few issues and great results.

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