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by Phil Behun on 16 March 2010 - 21:03
I just received this notice from the FMBB (Federation Mondiale Bergers Belges or World Belgian Sheepdog Organization) an FCI affiliate, regarding a vote coming up the 26th of this month to abolish IPO in the country of Austria. This is a huge precedent and could affect the sports of SchH and IPO around the world. Unfortunately, I can't translate it. I'm going to try short segments to try and get the gist of it but if any of you abroad have any information that can be shared here on this forum, I'm sure it will be helpful and appreciated.
Thank you
Thank you
by beetree on 16 March 2010 - 21:03
This is probably a stupid question, but why are they picking on Austria?
by hodie on 16 March 2010 - 21:03
It is simple. A person in Vienna, Austria has proposed a bill that will be voted on in the near future that will ban private persons (citizens) from participating in a sport like SchH. The proposal also mentions certain breeds and may designate certain breeds as potentially dangerous (although I have not seen the list and explanation of it). See below for the former post put up as an AD. It will not be of much use for those of us who are not in Vienna or Austria to get all excited about this. We cannot effect any change in Austria.
The bottom line is that problems with irresponsible dog owners, overpopulation, dogs running loose, dog bites etc., exist in every country of the world where there is a large dog population. All it takes is for legislators and other citizens to get riled up about problems and bingo, someone proposes such legislation. We can bitch and moan all we like, but I have rarely seen people here or on other forums be proactive and participate in the legislative process. It is hard enough to convince posters on this PDB to stop breeding litter after litter after litter and placing dogs inappropriately in homes where dogs will not receive proper socialization and training and a proper confined area.
edited to note my post below of the original posted AD.
The bottom line is that problems with irresponsible dog owners, overpopulation, dogs running loose, dog bites etc., exist in every country of the world where there is a large dog population. All it takes is for legislators and other citizens to get riled up about problems and bingo, someone proposes such legislation. We can bitch and moan all we like, but I have rarely seen people here or on other forums be proactive and participate in the legislative process. It is hard enough to convince posters on this PDB to stop breeding litter after litter after litter and placing dogs inappropriately in homes where dogs will not receive proper socialization and training and a proper confined area.
edited to note my post below of the original posted AD.
by LAVK-9 on 16 March 2010 - 21:03
The bottom line is that problems with irresponsible dog owners, overpopulation, dogs running loose, dog bites etc., exist in every country with a large dog population
That is ridiculous!! That has nothing to do with SchH or any other dog competition...it has to do with irresponcible people that don't get their dogs trained or have some froo froo trainer with their bs "dog psychology" crap that never actually deals with issues that aggressive dogs have. I have seen too much of this lately across the pond. This town has no SchH trained dogs.There are many bites from dogs and many running loose. WHY cause people are stupid and don't bother to get educated about dogs and don't get them trained.Do they think that at a certain age the dogs just knows how to behave? Stupid is as stupid does. Ruins it for the people that aren't.
That is ridiculous!! That has nothing to do with SchH or any other dog competition...it has to do with irresponcible people that don't get their dogs trained or have some froo froo trainer with their bs "dog psychology" crap that never actually deals with issues that aggressive dogs have. I have seen too much of this lately across the pond. This town has no SchH trained dogs.There are many bites from dogs and many running loose. WHY cause people are stupid and don't bother to get educated about dogs and don't get them trained.Do they think that at a certain age the dogs just knows how to behave? Stupid is as stupid does. Ruins it for the people that aren't.
by hodie on 16 March 2010 - 21:03
You miss the point. It does not matter whether people see the difference between dog sports or the other things I noted above and which you add to your own post above without properly quoting me. The legislation being proposed is broad and unfortunately, people see sports where dogs are taught to bite as teaching dogs to simply go out and bite people. Of course, that is not what happens. Yes, there are irresponsible people who don't train their dog, and yes there are incompetent trainers (anyone can train dogs right?), and there are pet psychics and lots of other BS. But in the end, it all often gets lumped together. And that is exactly what has happened in Austria, and even in some places here in the US. Fortunately, for the moment, no one has suggested banning SchH in the US, but in time I expect to see such an attempt. I will tell you that it is almost impossible to get insurance if one does SchH in this country. In fact, because I do obedience training in my facility, I cannot get insurance. Were I to say I did any type of bite training at all, I am confident I would loose my insurance that I do have.
by hodie on 16 March 2010 - 22:03
Here is the original post which someone kindly found for me. It was posted as an AD by Marchgraben....
Dear Friends from all over the world ...
we will need your help. Please foreward this message to all of your friends and contacts:
Our Goverment (mrs. Sima) in Vienna plan to ban protective service as well as to put our dogs probably on a special list (like the dangerous dog act in GB) for dangerous dogs. This law will be implemented first for Vienna but we can be sure that this law will bei implemented for the whole country very soon after.
All Austrian Dog-Organisationes are now pulling on the same string. But still need a lot of help from outside to prevent our goverment to make a big mistake by implementing this law.
We have got two groups at Facebook
" Gegen das Verbot für Schutzhundesport für Privatpersonen.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000099122046#!/group.php?gid=357032170681&ref=ts
and this group which refers directly to the initiator of this new law, mrs. sima
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=280687061260&topic=14017#topic_top
I also can send you a copy of our letter of protest if you wish
Best regards from Austria
Daniel Leimgruber, and as well as many dogs and guide dog owners
Liebe Hundesportler aus allen Teilen der Welt wir benötigen eure Hilfe !!
Bitte diese Nachricht auch an eure Freunde und Kontakte weiterleiten
Die Stadt Wien insbesonderes Gemeinderätin Umwelt Ulli Sima (SPÖ) will in Zukunft ein Verbot für Schutzhundesport durchpeitschen . Sie hat auch bereits eine "Rasseliste" durchgesetzt die nach oben offen ist.
Zu erst in der Stadt Wien und dann wäre es nur mehr eiine Frage der Zeit das es in ganz Österreich bzw. in der Europäischen Union Schule macht.
Es ziehen in Österreich sämtlich Vereine und Verbände an einem Strang. Aber umso mehr Unterstützung wir haben umso größer können wir einen Druck ausüben.
Wir habe auch zwei Links für euch zu erst eine Facebookgruppe " Gegen das Verbot für Schutzhundesport für Privatpersonen.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000099122046#!/group.php?gid=357032170681&ref=ts
Als auch eine Seite mit Protestkundmachung gegenüber der Stadträtin Ulli Simer http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=280687061260&topic=14017#topic_top
Es gibt auch ein Schreiben das an die Landesregierung Wien gesendet werden kann können wir euch auch gerne senden.
Liebe Grüße aus Österreich
Daniel Leimgruber
Zahlreiche Hundesportler als auch Hundebesitzer
Dear Friends from all over the world ...
we will need your help. Please foreward this message to all of your friends and contacts:
Our Goverment (mrs. Sima) in Vienna plan to ban protective service as well as to put our dogs probably on a special list (like the dangerous dog act in GB) for dangerous dogs. This law will be implemented first for Vienna but we can be sure that this law will bei implemented for the whole country very soon after.
All Austrian Dog-Organisationes are now pulling on the same string. But still need a lot of help from outside to prevent our goverment to make a big mistake by implementing this law.
We have got two groups at Facebook
" Gegen das Verbot für Schutzhundesport für Privatpersonen.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000099122046#!/group.php?gid=357032170681&ref=ts
and this group which refers directly to the initiator of this new law, mrs. sima
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=280687061260&topic=14017#topic_top
I also can send you a copy of our letter of protest if you wish
Best regards from Austria
Daniel Leimgruber, and as well as many dogs and guide dog owners
Liebe Hundesportler aus allen Teilen der Welt wir benötigen eure Hilfe !!
Bitte diese Nachricht auch an eure Freunde und Kontakte weiterleiten
Die Stadt Wien insbesonderes Gemeinderätin Umwelt Ulli Sima (SPÖ) will in Zukunft ein Verbot für Schutzhundesport durchpeitschen . Sie hat auch bereits eine "Rasseliste" durchgesetzt die nach oben offen ist.
Zu erst in der Stadt Wien und dann wäre es nur mehr eiine Frage der Zeit das es in ganz Österreich bzw. in der Europäischen Union Schule macht.
Es ziehen in Österreich sämtlich Vereine und Verbände an einem Strang. Aber umso mehr Unterstützung wir haben umso größer können wir einen Druck ausüben.
Wir habe auch zwei Links für euch zu erst eine Facebookgruppe " Gegen das Verbot für Schutzhundesport für Privatpersonen.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000099122046#!/group.php?gid=357032170681&ref=ts
Als auch eine Seite mit Protestkundmachung gegenüber der Stadträtin Ulli Simer http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=280687061260&topic=14017#topic_top
Es gibt auch ein Schreiben das an die Landesregierung Wien gesendet werden kann können wir euch auch gerne senden.
Liebe Grüße aus Österreich
Daniel Leimgruber
Zahlreiche Hundesportler als auch Hundebesitzer
by hodie on 16 March 2010 - 22:03
Essentially, the proposal is to ban private persons from participating in Schutzhund sport and makes a list too of affected breeds. The proposal is being made in Vienna, but Herr Leimgruber writes that the fear is that such a ban could become country-wide. He asks for people to sign their petitions at the two sites above. Unfortunately, being an Englishman or an American will not help them. The Austrians, especially those who live in Vienna at the moment, will be the ones to make such a proposal law or not.
by Mystere on 16 March 2010 - 22:03
The reason that no one has suggested banning schutzhund/ring, yet, is because John Q. Public doesn't know about schutzhund and ring sport... yet. Just as soon as PETA gets tired of messing with Mike Tyson and his pigeons, looks around for some other "issue" to garner contributions with, and lays its sights on something called "schutzhund," we are in for it. It is just a matter of time, before some schutzhund or Ring idiot acts irresponsibly with their dog, and a tragedy happens. When that occurs, the bell will commence tolling for thee.
If you think that warnings about PETA are merely alarmist, look around you during these winter months. Remember when you were a kid? Assuming you are "of a certain age": you saw lots of women wearing fur coats in the winter back in the day. Women wore all kinds of fur: mink, raccoon, lynx, fox, beaver, sable, seal, Mongolian lamb, etc. PETA came in and set their sights on fur. Within a few years, the furriers largely went out of business. Major department stores stopped carrying fur coats. And we stopped seeing so many folks wearing fur coats, even in the winter. PETA has continued to make fur-wearing sound like the act of a pervert and potential child-molester.. .and John Q. is buying it.
(Places like Minnesota may be exempt from PETA's from influence. I lived there for seven looooong winters and a fur coat was mandatory for all days colder than -25-30 degrees. Even the vegetarians wore fur coats!!)
PETA can do the same to schutzhund, ring and other dog sports that involve anything more than catching a frisbee (PETA will go after them eventually, too, but that can wait for later). Just let a schutzhund trained and titled dog be involved in an attack on someone, especially a child, and the legislation will come. The insurance companies already make out as if our breeds were all slavering monsters jonesing for the taste of human flesh--and they know the little yappers are the ones most likely to bite!
That is why "peer pressure," what some call "piling on" with respect to the morons among us, is important. It is self-defense. If we don't act to modify the actions of "our" morons, we leave the door open for "others" to deal with all of us as if we were the irresponsible the morons. "To each his own" simply does not play, when Rosco doing his own [irresponsible] thing may lead to John Q. curtailing ours.
If you think that warnings about PETA are merely alarmist, look around you during these winter months. Remember when you were a kid? Assuming you are "of a certain age": you saw lots of women wearing fur coats in the winter back in the day. Women wore all kinds of fur: mink, raccoon, lynx, fox, beaver, sable, seal, Mongolian lamb, etc. PETA came in and set their sights on fur. Within a few years, the furriers largely went out of business. Major department stores stopped carrying fur coats. And we stopped seeing so many folks wearing fur coats, even in the winter. PETA has continued to make fur-wearing sound like the act of a pervert and potential child-molester.. .and John Q. is buying it.
(Places like Minnesota may be exempt from PETA's from influence. I lived there for seven looooong winters and a fur coat was mandatory for all days colder than -25-30 degrees. Even the vegetarians wore fur coats!!)PETA can do the same to schutzhund, ring and other dog sports that involve anything more than catching a frisbee (PETA will go after them eventually, too, but that can wait for later). Just let a schutzhund trained and titled dog be involved in an attack on someone, especially a child, and the legislation will come. The insurance companies already make out as if our breeds were all slavering monsters jonesing for the taste of human flesh--and they know the little yappers are the ones most likely to bite!
That is why "peer pressure," what some call "piling on" with respect to the morons among us, is important. It is self-defense. If we don't act to modify the actions of "our" morons, we leave the door open for "others" to deal with all of us as if we were the irresponsible the morons. "To each his own" simply does not play, when Rosco doing his own [irresponsible] thing may lead to John Q. curtailing ours.
by Bob McKown on 16 March 2010 - 22:03
Would my hat offend PETA?
by LAVK-9 on 16 March 2010 - 22:03
Very true Mystere...I was wondering if PETA had anything to do with this in the first place.
Oh and my mom has a beaver fur coat that was left to her from my grandma and a mink and fox collar coat she got from my aunt. She still wears them and if any PETA nut were to bother her...I think my step dad would shoot them.lol (not that i am for wearing fur but PETA is too extreme on hypocrisy)
Oh and my mom has a beaver fur coat that was left to her from my grandma and a mink and fox collar coat she got from my aunt. She still wears them and if any PETA nut were to bother her...I think my step dad would shoot them.lol (not that i am for wearing fur but PETA is too extreme on hypocrisy)
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