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by Vixen on 14 March 2010 - 15:03
Having had a number of GSD Owners (U.K.) comment that they had previously been to a GSD Breed Club for Obedience, under the impression that the Trainers would be more experienced and 'savvy' with our breed, but then found this not to be the case. Therefore, I decided to visit and view for myself.
This is what I have observed.....
Dogs generally not under good or appropriate control (especially the higher Classes)
Very little definition of difference between an Intermediate and Advanced Class.
Time being dragged out, by having just one or two handlers at a time take part, when not actually necessary.
Instructors not paying sufficient attention to detail, or giving appropriate help to correct errors being made.
Very few, Instructors having their own dog present to demonstrate where needed, and under good control when not.
Quite a few of the Instructors actually having problems and issues with their own dogs, that one might expect from a Beginner.
Instructors appearing to lack a degree of confidence with Owners and dogs. Or, a magnified self-attitude.
Playing 'safe' with comfortable exercises, rather than stretch Owner and dog to progress further.
Practising what they do rather than training to improve what they do.
These are just some of the conduct and teaching. Do people recognise these situations? Just how common is this at GSD Obedience Clubs? I would be very pleased to hear that I have observed rare management and teaching.
Regards,
Vixen
This is what I have observed.....
Dogs generally not under good or appropriate control (especially the higher Classes)
Very little definition of difference between an Intermediate and Advanced Class.
Time being dragged out, by having just one or two handlers at a time take part, when not actually necessary.
Instructors not paying sufficient attention to detail, or giving appropriate help to correct errors being made.
Very few, Instructors having their own dog present to demonstrate where needed, and under good control when not.
Quite a few of the Instructors actually having problems and issues with their own dogs, that one might expect from a Beginner.
Instructors appearing to lack a degree of confidence with Owners and dogs. Or, a magnified self-attitude.
Playing 'safe' with comfortable exercises, rather than stretch Owner and dog to progress further.
Practising what they do rather than training to improve what they do.
These are just some of the conduct and teaching. Do people recognise these situations? Just how common is this at GSD Obedience Clubs? I would be very pleased to hear that I have observed rare management and teaching.
Regards,
Vixen
by VonIsengard on 14 March 2010 - 15:03
A talented, experienced, creative, and confident trainer is hard to find no matter where you're looking.-
by Vixen on 14 March 2010 - 15:03
Hi KCzaja,
May I ask if, from your experience, you are you recognising and agreeing with the situations described?
If so, is it actually too much to expect from a Professional Trainer/Instructor, who an Owner is paying to learn Obedience with their dog, that the person has talent, will certainly be experienced, be creative as necessary and appropriately confident in the role they have chosen?
Regards,
Vixen
May I ask if, from your experience, you are you recognising and agreeing with the situations described?
If so, is it actually too much to expect from a Professional Trainer/Instructor, who an Owner is paying to learn Obedience with their dog, that the person has talent, will certainly be experienced, be creative as necessary and appropriately confident in the role they have chosen?
Regards,
Vixen
by Shonnag on 14 March 2010 - 16:03
Vixen
There are not many GSD Obedience clubs in the uk so not sure where you have visited. IMHO GSD Breed Clubs, which is what I think you are referring to, are run for ring craft and not the place for obedience training although most members will offer advice, usually to aid members have obedient dogs which is not the same thing as training for competetive obedience.
There are GSD/Alsatian training clubs which teach obedience and members of these clubs compete at Ticket level so your sweeping comment that teaching is rare may be based on a very small sample.
Shonnag
There are not many GSD Obedience clubs in the uk so not sure where you have visited. IMHO GSD Breed Clubs, which is what I think you are referring to, are run for ring craft and not the place for obedience training although most members will offer advice, usually to aid members have obedient dogs which is not the same thing as training for competetive obedience.
There are GSD/Alsatian training clubs which teach obedience and members of these clubs compete at Ticket level so your sweeping comment that teaching is rare may be based on a very small sample.
Shonnag
by Vixen on 14 March 2010 - 16:03
Thank you Shonnag for your comment. However, I have visited several, and they are most certainly GSD Obedience Clubs. This is the reason for my concern.
Obedience and good management of a dog should go hand-in-hand. Otherwise, you would merely have a dog that learned to 'perform'.
So based on visiting several. I was interested to hear if other people found this a recognised manner of the interaction and training?
Regards,
Vixen
Obedience and good management of a dog should go hand-in-hand. Otherwise, you would merely have a dog that learned to 'perform'.
So based on visiting several. I was interested to hear if other people found this a recognised manner of the interaction and training?
Regards,
Vixen
by LAVK-9 on 14 March 2010 - 16:03
Vixen- I would agree with Kczaja that it is hard to come by a confident trainer that has the experience. I think some "obedience" groups out there are just to mingle and socilize but they don't touch much on the actualy obedience part. I know in the classes I taught I was kinda strict and didn't tolerate idle chit chat.If it was a question about training that is fine but I taught an OBEDIENCE class.I wasn't mean but did expect people to actually work their dogs.That is what they signed up for and paid for.Then again we were a training facility....not a club.Not sure if that makes the difference.
by Shonnag on 14 March 2010 - 16:03
Competitive obedience could I guess be described as performing, and as a recognised sport it has to be a performance or there is little to judge. A dog that is not well rounded is not suitable for competing so dog management is a part of it.
Shonnag
by Super Para on 14 March 2010 - 17:03
Vixen,
I agree with you 100%, so much so that I no longer am a member of the BAGSD. I trained with them with a pet puppy having previously undergone Prison/Police Dog Training, and was a little confused to be going through what was poor, unplanned and run by inexperienced Trainers.
The head trainer was what I would call "old school" still training 1960`s style and would not even enter into talks about how methods had progressed. It was her way or nothing.
Most of the other trainers were ruled by her and I genuinely think that they had trained 1 Dog under the club and had then gone on to become instructors, now I know that just because someone can achieve a level of training with 1 Dog does not mean they will naturally be good Instructors.
I am concerned that these so called Instructors which have now got some "time" under there belts are still training and supposedly being assessed as competent!!
Hope this adds some fuel to your fire.
I agree with you 100%, so much so that I no longer am a member of the BAGSD. I trained with them with a pet puppy having previously undergone Prison/Police Dog Training, and was a little confused to be going through what was poor, unplanned and run by inexperienced Trainers.
The head trainer was what I would call "old school" still training 1960`s style and would not even enter into talks about how methods had progressed. It was her way or nothing.
Most of the other trainers were ruled by her and I genuinely think that they had trained 1 Dog under the club and had then gone on to become instructors, now I know that just because someone can achieve a level of training with 1 Dog does not mean they will naturally be good Instructors.
I am concerned that these so called Instructors which have now got some "time" under there belts are still training and supposedly being assessed as competent!!
Hope this adds some fuel to your fire.
by Vixen on 14 March 2010 - 17:03
Hello Lavk-9, Presumably from your own personal experience as a Trainer, would you not consider that in order to teach obedience and good management, the Trainer/Instructor requires and needs experience with dogs? From this experience it would help their understanding to then act as apprentice to an experienced Trainer. Otherwise what have they to offer? Courses, books and their own dogs are not enough.
Shonnag, Competitive Obedience may usually attract Owners who progress with their dog. However, there are plenty who progress to a high level but have no desire to compete. They enjoy the focus, concentration and attention, that helps give a closer bond.
I would however, query good "management" being "part" of a competing dog? (Again, speaking from the UK), as dogs that can perform in the Ring, can be oh so different with their Owner interaction, response and manners outside of it. Some Owners don't appear to notice or even expect it.
Regards,
Vixen
Shonnag, Competitive Obedience may usually attract Owners who progress with their dog. However, there are plenty who progress to a high level but have no desire to compete. They enjoy the focus, concentration and attention, that helps give a closer bond.
I would however, query good "management" being "part" of a competing dog? (Again, speaking from the UK), as dogs that can perform in the Ring, can be oh so different with their Owner interaction, response and manners outside of it. Some Owners don't appear to notice or even expect it.
Regards,
Vixen
by Vixen on 14 March 2010 - 17:03
Hello Super Para,
Thank you for your comments. Far from wanting a blazing fire. It is very sad that you too found the standard of training somewhat lacking. If this is the norm then it is concerning. People and their dogs deserve more. A Trainer/Instructor has a duty to provide like any other profession.
Hope you have discovered a Training Club that does inspire and motivate you and your dog.
Regards,
Vixen
Thank you for your comments. Far from wanting a blazing fire. It is very sad that you too found the standard of training somewhat lacking. If this is the norm then it is concerning. People and their dogs deserve more. A Trainer/Instructor has a duty to provide like any other profession.
Hope you have discovered a Training Club that does inspire and motivate you and your dog.
Regards,
Vixen
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