tracking/trailing - Page 1

Curious to the varied methodologies you guys use to teach building a search.

All you have is a scent article to provide the target odor to your dog and a previous sighting of the object being tracked in a 200x200 yard area. Your dog must hunt/find the trail and obviously track it, however at this point im only concerned with finding the initial trail for the purpose of this question.

How do/would you guys develope this skill?

Teach the dog to circle.
Some dogs will do this naturally.
Others must be taught this.
Once the dog has found the track you must aid in the direction of travel from that point.
I track animals, its not Schutzhund.  
Start with a bit of hide and seek on leash making larger and larger circles out to the track keeping to the inside of the dog.

Yoshy,
You wrote:
Curious to the varied methodologies you guys use to teach building a search.

This is different than the area search or tracking/trailing question you are asking about and could be a very good separate topic.

All you have is a scent article to provide the target odor to your dog and a previous sighting of the object being tracked in a 200x200 yard area. Your dog must hunt/find the trail and obviously track it, however at this point im only concerned with finding the initial trail for the purpose of this question.

How do/would you guys develope this skill?

We train our K9's in air scenting and ground disturbance tracking as well as scent discriminating tracking.  If I have a scent article in the scenario you mentioned above, I will allow my dog to take scent.  I will go to the area the subject was last seen and start my dog.  If I am given a general area like you describe, I have a couple of options. 1) I can divide the area in quadrants and if possible cut my dog loose and direct him to check or search for the track.  I can take a systematic approach and rule out areas as i direct him into different quadrants.  When the dog hits the scent I will see a behavior and breathing change.  I look for a head snap and his nose going to the ground, his tail and body language will change and he will begin to track.  If he is off lead I will down him at this point and put him on a 30' lead.  If it is not feasible to cut him off lead, I will do the same thing on lead and just follow him when he hits the track. 

2) I may walk the perimeter of the area and tell the dog to track after giving him the scent article.  I will be looking for the head snap and body/behavior change to see where the dog has picked up the track.  This has been successfully where the suspect has jumped a fence into a compound and I can't get the dog over the fence.  The only info I have is "I last saw the suspect here and he ran that way."   My dog has tracked up to fences and sat and looked at me saying he went in there.  I  walked him around the perimeter where the dog picked up the track of the guy jumping the fence on the other side of the compound and we tracked and caught the guy in the woods. 

To be continued:

Jim

Continued:

How do/would you guys develope this skill?

We do a lot of tracking training.  Our last team training  session on we did Scent discrimination tracking.  Each track was over a mile long ( a mile long track is pretty far), the tracks were mostly on streets and crossed main busy roads including a 4 lane highway.  The handlers were specifically not told where the track went, a second person went with them for traffic drection and to help if they got really lost.  Trust me, we didn't tell the handlers where to go, just the opposite we stressed them out before the track.  All of the dogs were able to cross the roads including the highway, jump fences and continue tracking through fields, woods and neighborhoods.  I used google earth to plan the tracks and didn't tell the handlers where the tracks went, the second person had a map and a cell phone if they needed it.  .  Each track ended at a building and all the dogs were able to track to the correct door than perform a building search and an apprehension.  Some of the dogs were pretty gassed out by the end as each track had some difficulties built in.  The better conditioned / younger dogs were still fresh at the end.  All the dogs did a nice building search at the end.  

Here are some of the things we do to train this.

I will lay a track with the first leg being maybe 200 yards long.  I will instruct the handler to bring their dog up to the track perpendicular in the middle of the first leg.  So where the dog approaches it can go either way right or left.  The dog has to learn to follow the correct direction of the track layer and not back track.  This is good for sport tracking as well.

I will lay tracks and go down a leg of the track and pass the point of my turn by 10 or 15 yds, then walk back along the track and make a turn.  A fast moving dog will tend to miss the turn and go to the end of that leg where the tracks ends.  I know exactly where this will happen and will watch the dogs behavior and see the loss of track indication clearly.  I do not help the dog, the dog must work it out on his own.  I will stand still until the dog is able to find the turn and begins tracking again in  the right direction.  This teaches the dog problem solving skills and lets me analyze the dogs behavior and body language.  For me it is just as important to know when the dog is on the track as well as when it has lost it.  

You have to incorporate some problem solving exercises into your training.  This builds confidence for the dog and gives you the tools to properly red the dog on the track.  

I'm sure their are many on here that can offer other suggestions as well. 

JMO FWIW, 

Jim

Slamdunc, from this & other replies I can see that you do a lot of work in tracking & I bet you really love it to. I also love tracking it & find it fascinating how a dog searches, discriminates, and works out problems with pretty much no input from me.

One question I do have is where you mentioned "So where the dog approaches it can go either way right or left. The dog has to learn to follow the correct direction of the track layer and not back track."  How does the dog discriminate between the forward & reverse directions on a track?

Cheers,

AandA

Aanda,

One question I do have is where you mentioned "So where the dog approaches it can go either way right or left. The dog has to learn to follow the correct direction of the track layer and not back track." How does the dog discriminate between the forward & reverse directions on a track?

I can't really explain how they do it.  The best example I can give is a hunting dog hitting the track of an animal that could be several hours old and knowing exactly which way the track goes.  I can assume it is from the strength of the odor, practice, experience or all 3.  I was shown this technique originally for SchH dogs tracking training, incorporated into my K9's training, but wasn't smart enough to ask your question at the time.  I can remember being shown the technique from an top handler and was to busy trying to remember everything she said to ask too many questions.

Jim

Hunting dogs often backtrack, the scent does get stronger in the forward but remember, the dog also see's the tracks, in ways we cannot.
They also learn from experience.
Hunting a man from the scene of a crime gives you a point of origin but the dog can still backtrack.
If you could see a scent trail from a dogs eyes you could see it like looking at a paint splatter covering one side of an object but not the other according to the direction it was hit caused by forward motion.

IME, they only bactrack for a very short distance, then correct tehmselves and move forward in the right direction.  You paint splaltter is a good analogy though.  I do train this and every dog gets it right almost immediately.

Jim

As you mention Jim, I've also seen my own hound hit an animal track and go in one direction for some yards and then circle around air scenting, hit the track again and then go in the other direction but with a great deal more speed and endeavour.

As moons mentioned the strength of the scent may well be a little stronger in the forward direction and perhaps air scenting  is the best way to discern this - even on windy days. Although having said that I have seen the hound circle & circle more & more excitedly on real blustery days!

Another thing I've noticed is for the dog to stop with his nose glued to a particular point on the ground and take several real big lung fulls. Sometimes he'll do this for 30 secs or more and move around with his nose stuck to the same spot. Is this a new scent that he's trying to lodge into his memory banks or just something particularly exciting?

It all does only go to show us that dogs have tremendous abilities that we can only imagine.

Cheers,

AandA

Jim,
You spoke about tracking across a four lane highway, my k-9 trainer friend told me a similar story and the guy was riding a bicycle, not a foot.
Anyway dogs amaze me.

I've seen a coon dog try to climb grape vines to get to a branch, he would have climbed the tree if he could have got a leg up.
They all amaze me.