Purchasing Frozen Semen - Page 1

These questions are for the breeders who have done this. I am interested in obtaining frozen semen from a few males, particularly a couple of Fero-free males, for future (possibly waaaay into the future). 1. What is the usual process--is the semen just shipped from one storage facility to another, or is ownership merely switched on paper at the original storage facility? 2. What happens if it thaws in transit? 3. What types of tests/records,etc.. should I get copies of, prior to purchase? 4. How is "identity" authenticated? (I am mindful of the recent suit in Ohio where some small breed accidentally was AI'd with semen from a Great Pyrenees or something). 5. How many "straws" are needed for a breeding? 6. Does insemination always have to be surgical? Any imput is appreciated, including anything I have not asked.

Yes it is shipped to one storage facility to another (or to the facility implaning if done right away...should be experienced in frozen).  Buyer pays shipping, which depending distance it could be $300-$500 or more.  It is shipped in a tank charged with liquid nitrogen vapors.  Must be an approved AKC reproduction specialist, there is additional paperwork to fill out for frozen breeding (signed by both repro facilities and both owners), but not sure if it is done at the time of implantation or ownership of the semen is transferred if planning to store by the buyer.

The bitch to be implanted must be tested frequently from the beginning of her heat (every 2-3 days) to monitor LH levels closely because with frozen it is imperative to hit ovulation as close as possible because the frozen thawed semen doesn't live as long. 

Surgical implantation (from my prepro specialist website)
Unlike fresh semen, which can live in the reproductive tract of a bitch for 5-7 days, frozen semen will only live 12-20 hours once thawed. It must preserve all it's energy to penetrate and fertilize the eggs, so the best conception rates (90% in our practice) are achieved with surgical insemination, where the semen is injected directly into the uterine horn. Since vaginal insemination has statistically low conception rates (under 20%), we do not suggest using your valuable semen in this fashion.

AKC requires the dogs for frozen DNA'd......my repro specialist copied my dogs DNA cert before I had him collected.

Depending on how potent the male is depends on how many straws are required for a breeding...the specialist test the count and mobility before freezing and post thaw to determine the number.

Basically frozen breeding is an expensive endevor even before the bitch is even bred (between stud fees, shipping, testing your bitch and surgical implant) and is more risky than fresh chilled or live cover.  Most people the cost and risk greatly outweighs their desire to breed that particular litter.

 

These questions are for the breeders who have done this. I am interested in obtaining frozen semen from a few males, particularly a couple of Fero-free males, for future (possibly waaaay into the future). 1. What is the usual process--is the semen just shipped from one storage facility to another, or is ownership merely switched on paper at the original storage facility?

Depends on the arrangement between you and the owner of the semen.   If you wanted to buy the semen and continue to store it at the current facility, then you would need to arrange with that facility to store the straws in your name, and your expense.  In other words the straws would be separated from the owner's 'stash' and stored under your name in your own storage location at that facility.  There may be a fee for moving the straws, and you would then be responsible for the yearly fee for storing your semen.
Probably, though, you would want to store the purchased semen in a facility closer to you - you should find a facility equpit to handle/store frozen semen and have the purchased semen shipped there for storage until you wanted to use it.  
The ownership of the semen would be transferred on paper and you would be the owner on the record for the purchased straws.

2. What happens if it thaws in transit?
 
This would only happen if it is mishandled - you would speak to the vets about that - I would not think the semen owner would be liable for this.  However, some semen does not ship well!  It may pay to purchase one straw, have it shipped to your chosen vet/facility, and have it checked on arrival to make sure it shipped "well".  Or speak to the vet about the chances of frozen semen not shipping "well".  I'm not sure about that - it is possible that the problems with shipping semen (semen arriving with low motility) may only happen with fresh chilled semen.  I am not sure about that.  When I have shipped frozen semen in the past, it has always arrived in good shape.  Keeping in mind that the process of freezing and thawing will reduce the motility of the semen.  Live-cover natural breeding is always best, then fresh AI (using semen collected and then inseminated immediately), then fresh-chilled shipped, and lastly frozen shipped. 

3. What types of tests/records,etc.. should I get copies of, prior to purchase?
 
Every vet who handles frozen semen will have records "galore" about when it was collected, how many straws, the motility of the semen at collection, and ownership information.  As new owner you and the semen owner would do a transfer of ownership for the straws you purchased.  This would be available at the vet that stores the semen.  It has nothing to do with AKC as far as I know.  The owner of the semen is not necessarily the owner of the stud dog.

4. How is "identity" authenticated? (I am mindful of the recent suit in Ohio where some small breed accidentally was AI'd with semen from a Great Pyrenees or something).
 
Every stud dog collected for freezing/storing must have DNA profile submitted.  This is the id and could be checked in the case there was any suspicion.  And of course the puppies sired by the stud dog could be dna'd as well to verify parentage.
 Certainly if the dna profile didn't match the semen you purchased, there would be grounds for a lawsuit.

5. How many "straws" are needed for a breeding?

Depending on the motility/quality of the thawed semen - 2-4 straws per breeding.  Normally, but not always - vets like to breed the female two times.  So, total of 4-8 straws per litter.  When I ship frozen semen from one of my stud dogs, I normally ship 4 straws tot

cut me off -

5. How many "straws" are needed for a breeding?

Depending on the motility/quality of the thawed semen - 2-4 straws per breeding. Normally, but not always - vets like to breed the female two times. So, total of 4-8 straws per litter. When I ship frozen semen from one of my stud dogs, I normally ship 4 straws total. They can use two straws each for two breedings (same female, same heat cycle) or all 4 at once depending on where the female is in her cycle.

6. Does insemination always have to be surgical?

In my experience vets who inseminate using frozen semen prefer to do surgical insemination - this would include surgical AI (involving anesthesia, surgical incision into the abdomen) and also trans-cervical insemination (what I use) - if the vet is trained and has the equipment - which involves no sedation - female standing on the table, and vet using a scope and pipette to deliver the semen past the cervix.

As already mentioned - using frozen semen is highly risky. You must time the female exactly, and inseminate her on exactly the right day, then hope it takes. There is a higher chance it won't take, than it will. Natural or fresh AI is always a better risk when it's possible. But when using an elderly, dead, or unavailable male, frozen can be the only option other than going to the same bloodlines with a younger male that is available.

Molly
Eichenluft Working German Shepherds
http://workinggermanshepherd.com

I reported the above post as abusive and I hope others do too.  Disgusting.  Remove it.

Molly and GSDFAN, Thank you for your information. It is VERY helpful and will certainly be part of my decision-making process. ¶An informative thread has, once again, been contaminated by the cowardly idiocy of a miscreant fear-biter. When, and IF, he acquires a set of balls, prosthetically speaking of course, perhaps he will have the courage to publicly identify himself and own his comments. Until then, he will remain a miscreant whose pathetic posts continue to rise to the level of bathos. IOW, hater, you have become a cartoon character that gives me a laugh every time you pop up because you are so pathetic that it becomes funny. The idea that you actually devote so much energy on this crap cracks me up!! Thanks for the chuckle!! Nia

one more thing - shipping the frozen semen is not so expensive - it's just what the FexEx charges - usually around $75.  If GSDfan's vet charges hundreds, that's a big markup.  However, collecting/freezing charges are $250+, that may be what GSDfan was referring to.  The cost of frozen semen (from me anyway) would be the agreed-upon stud fee (cost of the 4 straws) plus collecting charges ($250 in my case) plus shipping. No guarantees.

molly

I would imagine that no stud owners give guarantees on breedings with frozen semen because of the lower odds?

Thanks Molly that is correct...I was referring to the total charges of getting the semen to them not just the actual shipping charges.

No guarantees because "usually" the stud whose semen is frozen, is no longer viable for natural/live cover breeding.  Either he is dead, or old, or his semen is no longer viable.  Otherwise his frozen semen wouldn't be needed, yet.

So using up 4 valuable straws means that amount is not replaced - if the female is not pregnant you send 4 more straws?  I don't think so.

That said, in MY case, I have frozen semen from Eagle, Bodo Tiekerhook (not for sale), Casch Salztalblick, Kaos Eichenluft.  The only one still viable for natural breedings is Casch.   I just sold semen from Eagle to someone.  Hopefully they will have a great litter sired by him.  If not, then I will honor the stud fee by allowing them to use one of my "viable" stud dogs for no stud fee - only collection/shipping fees will be charged.  

It is very risky to use the frozen - chances are the female will not take with frozen semen.  But, worth the risk if you have a great female and want to breed her to a great male that is not available in any other way.

molly