OFA or SV hip ratings? - Page 1

Just wondering what opinions are on this subject. I've done both.  Wondering who and why you would prefer one over the other. 
Cathy 

SV ratings are done at 1 year of age - there can be dramatic changes in hips or elbows from 1 year to 2 especially if either were not rated A1. That is the down side to the SV. 

OFA will only certify at 2 yrs of age.  But they will give you a reading before that, it just cannot be certified and on their database.

On dogs I buy from Germany that already have their A stamps, I usually have the OFA look at them too because it is a good screen processes when you buy and record them there if the dog is 2 yrs or over.   I have had dogs go up in rating and also down in rating.  One female showline I have had her A1 hip from the SV - at 3 she had a bad hip.  Some of the bloodlines will pass at 1 year and do the radical change. Others stay consistent.  Usually an NG at 1 goes lower at 2 or 3 with OFA especially elbows as it pertains to arthritis showing up. 

Conversely, I think it is very important to keep the data flowing to the SV on hips and elbows as it is calculated into the parents HD ZW number.  This is an excellent indicator of what should be bred to what and is the only database like it for GSD's.  The more imports and the more dogs bred in the US with their hips and elbows going into the SV database, the better it is for the breed.

thanks for your input Kim. I thought there would be more knowledge on this list about this subject. Oh well, I tried. 
Cathy 

Hi,
Abbi's mom,
I do not have a very vast experience with OFA since I live in Germany. I also never had the idear of importing a dog from the USA, so I really never thought about that.
But I do believe that what Kim wrote to be to the point. Only thing I would not be so sure about, is what Kim wrote about the ZW numbers. I do also take a look at the ZW numbers, sure it's a helpfull tool, but far away from beeing excellent. Many offsprings are NOT entered and calculated into the ZW of the parents, some because the new owners do not care, some because they turn out to be displastic and the result never gets to the SV. So I would take the ZW always with a grain of salt ! ( You have to consider that a dog owner here in Germany has to pay twice - once for the Vet taking the X-rays and second for the SV to evaluate & record the result - so if your Vet allready tells you, your dog wont get the "a", why bother to spend that extra money with the SV ?) A statistic can only be as good as the data entered.
Ulli

It's the same here in the Uk. You have to get the Vet to X-ray the hips and elbows then they have to be sent away to BVA to be read, so you have two payments.
I would of thought, that even though you get told that an 'a' (in Germany) is not possible by the vet that you still get them graded so that data can be recorded and held for the right reasons?.... just my opinion.

One of the new things  is that as of next year dogs that don't receive the a stamp supposedly don't have to pay the SV for the evaluation, hopefully more people will then send in their dogs hips that aren't good so the ZW numbers will be more accurate.
Bea

Yes, I've heard the ZW is not all that accurate. As you said the ones that are bad don't usually get sent in. Thanks for the input. I like hearing others opinions sometimes. Wouldn't it be great if everyone would send them in good or bad. It would be a very useful tool to improve upon. I have to say I have been guilty myself once of not wasting my money if they didn't look good in the first place. It was for OFA so it didn't really matter I guess.  
Cathy  

The ZW number is about the most accurate benchmark provided - it is not perfect, but at least its there which is more than can be said about our lax breeding in the United States.  A dog with good hips or elbows may  carry the gene for bad or not so good hips or elbows.

Also, if people would buy the HD disks from the SV , people would learn a lot and see what dogs have many of their litters evaluated and which ones don't. The information is super on those disks.  By a large amount of omissions of submission of xrays - you pretty well can guess things are not working out too good for the breedings and the dogs are not going on to be bred.  This can help people make informed decssions on breeding.

Conversely, if you have two parents with ZW over 100 even in the high 90's you do know you have a high risk of bad hips.  You can also compare the litters and their ZW - so you have to understand the information and use it not as a flat number but what it means, look at all the litters the dog has had, and see how many go into the calculation - its a super tool.

The farther the US gets away from using this tool, the farther down the road we are getting on breeding dogs that have problems.  As I stated, just because a dog's xrays are good, does not mean they are not carrying the bad genes.  The ZW number is calculated from calculation used in breeding for many genetic things in animals.  It is used in cattle, dogs, etc. for the prediction of the calculaton genetic defect.  Like I said, there is way more to it than a flat number - you have to use all the information.  Its like getting an A on a test - well was the test hard or easy, was there one question or many - its like getting first place, was it a trial where the judge was lenient or the WUSV?  Big difference on what each means.  You have to take all the information and make an informed decision - just taking a ZW number without looking at all the litters that have not been xrayed is not how to use a ZW number.  If a dog's litters are not xrayed, that tells you something right there and beyond hips and elbows, it tells you they were not good enough to breed.  Remember in Germany you have to have the DNA, Hips and elbows done in order to breed along with the other requirements - the assessment of the dog for breeding starts at 1 year with the xrays -