is it genetics? - Page 1

One thing that I wanted the experts here is that I just recently had two litters out of Max (my dog). The bitches were just average bitches and the size of both the litters has been enormous. They gave birth to 11 pups each. One had 8 males & 3 females (october 5) and the recent one has 8 females and 3 males (oct 28). The 2nd litter has 10 black n tan pups and one sable female. What could possibly be the reason for one sable pup? Is it that there was one sable dog somewhere in max's background or the females background? Or is it genes? I cannot think of one possible reason for it....

anything?

The only way to get a sable puppy in a litter is that one parent be sable themselves. What colors are the parents?

both the parents are black n tan

 

can you post pictures and pedigree? sometimes the sable can be hard to tell and mistaken for a black and tan

Sable is the original and dominant coat scheme for the GSD - always has been. It is possible to get a sable puppy in virtually any litter of GSD puppies.
 
The coats we describe as saddled black/tan or black/red, as well as bi-colour and black all have sable origins. These "modern" coats are produced by many generations of selective breeding to produce this type of coat. When one breeds for a specific colour scheme things are more difficult to maintain. For example, if one wishes to produce all black puppies one must use all-black parents and know that a sable puppy will occassionally appear.

Some breeders desire and maintain the strong sable dominance as it is a very attractive dog when the colours are rich. I may add that many successful multi-generation breeders typically breed back to sable approximately every three (3) generations to help reinforce the saddle-type coat of certain offspring.

Best Regards,
Bob-O

(edited-poor spelling!)

thanks everyone

 prasac,

why don't you post the pictures of the litter as well as MAX it will be good to discuss this more and get more viewpoints

cheers

Theoretically two b/t parents cannot produce a sable puppy - if they had the allele for sable they would be sable themselves as its dominant, so they cannot pass this on to their offspring. Are you sure the pupy is not liver or blue? Having said this genetics seem to be more coplicated than we sometimes think. See the recent thread I started about a "black" puppy with only one black parent.

Highly improbable, and as molly would say, I'd like to see dna'd proof of parentage.  Bob-O is correct though, that the coat color patterns for black & tan, bicolor and black are modifications of the original sable gene, genes in which a portion of their coding for expression have gone defunct by way of a "loss of function" (LOF) mutation.  LOF usually results in bodily regions which become "self colored", meaning black.  Gene transcription errors can and do erroneously happen though, and portions of the agouti allele could be reverse mutated to their original form, and different from either parent's actual contributing genes.  So it's not completely impossible as some would like to think.  To say something isn't possible, is to eventually get proven wrong.

I will definitely try to post some pictures of the litter soon. Lets c if that pup is actually sable or liver or blue. I am sure there must be a reason behind it.

I checked the puppies today itself, they are just 15 days old now. The pups are very nice & I am sure there was no mix up at the time of breeding.

Will keep you guys posted.