History Lesson/Background re posts Nazism, WDA - Page 1

Some on this board know the history, some are newer and do not -  you have to know the history of the organizations and struture of the dog associations worlds wide to understand how these are actually intertwined.

Structure of Organizations

1. FCI is the world organizaiton that sanctions member registries, sports, shows etc.
2. Great Britan and AKC are recognized as the official registry for those countries, however, they are "guests", not members.
3. VDH in Germany is a member of the FCI and is the equivalent of AKC here EXEPT in Germany, each breed club does their own registry rather than like the AKC structure here.
4. Under VDH, much like here you have all the breed clubs governed by VDH. So the parrellel is like AKC, then for purposes of keeping it simple, I will use just one breed club of the AKC - GSDCA.
5. Under VDH there is another arm of governance, the working dog oversight AZG which SV is also a member of.  This then branches out to another organization DHV which under it is the DVG - this is much like AWDF.  As these sub organizations are all recognized FCI enitites, then that is who sends teams to the FCI championships.
6. In the US - we have USA and all the  non AKC breed clubs that were formed in order to be able to perform schutzhund activites that required bite work as the AKC would not allow venues with dogs that had to perform bite work. 
7. All of the clubs that were formed are part of AWDF and I believe it is either a guest or a member of FCI. Ergo they supply the team to the FCI world championship.
8. Out to the side you have the WUSV which is not a member of FCI - but is closely work on relations with FCI.  WUSV is just the World Union club of German Shepherds.  A few countries have two member clubs like we do here in the US.  GSDCA and USA.   GSDCA had its membership many, many years ago before when 99% of the GSDCA dogs were imported from Germany.  This is back when there was little difference between German Showline lines and German working dog lines.  Eventually, there was little import of  German lines, dogs were bred with the gene pool they had.
9. USA and GSDCA are members of the WUSV, not GSDCA-WDA - both USA and GSDCA have the membership right to bid and host if awarded the WUSV.  So no one took away the WUSV from WDA.  WDA has no standing.
10. There have always been groups that preferred the German imports and Schutzhund activities.  That is why USA was created to fill that need.
11. In the late 80's there was a rift with USA members, especially in California. Breaking away from USA were several people, which the recognizable names are the people who started GSDCA-WDA.  One being Dr. Landau.  GSDCA-WDA is an unrecognized by any organization and a legal entity of its own.  Carmen Battaglia was the president of GSDCA at the time WDA was formed. The intent was to have an arms length vehicle to be able to have SV style shows and schutzhund.  At that time was when it started that GSDCA "lent" its privileges to WDA - it is my understanding that there has always been an agreement specifying the relationship - the latest one is posted on the GSDCA-WDA website.  That is why GSDCA has the right to appoint BOD general directors to WDA.
12. There have been in the past and it is always ongoing that GSDCA does not comport to FCI standards for GSD's, that there must be working dog venues, hip and elbow certifications etc. etc. in order to continue to be a member of WUSV - WDA satisfies that requirement for GSDCA with the WUSV.
13. continued next post -

continued -

13.As a practical matter, Dr. Laike of the WUSV board, wrote an article a year ago "suggesting" that countries with two clubs that were WUSV members should become one club by the year 2012 and normally that combined club should be FCI recognized.
All of the various proposed resturcturing of rules, membership, recognizing WDS etc. are attempts to make whatever organization comport to what they beleive will make that organization the best/strongest .

Working Dog Sport - WDS

I saw where some people were confusing WDS and WDA - one has nothing to do with the other -

WDS was proposed to AKC as a way to get them to recognize schutzhund (biting requirements) which would put GSDCA back in compliance with a world standard to have working dogs in their activities. If this would be recognized, then as one person put it, they would no longer need their "beard" GSDCA-WDA This was done by Carmen Battaglia, David Landau and the then President of WDA Wayne Davis. AKC put out a bid for employment for someone to organize the rules and regulations. I know of three people who applied, two were seasoned judges of other organizations and one was the president of WDA, Wayne Davis. Wayne Davis got that job and was paid to work on the rules and regs.

WDS has been poorly attended. Once competitors figured out that the titles were not recognized anywhere else in the world, that it was a pilot test program. People just did not go. I don't think of the 4 breeds that were permitted to give these trials that any but 2 (GSDCA and the AKC Doberman club) had trials - all were poorly attended.

The working dog arm of AKC has been reviewing the pilot program. They are aware of all the drawbacks of WDS and the non participation. What that committee has been directed to do is to research just recognizing schutzhund but it would be administered through each breed club - that the breed club would choose which organiztion to hold events.

Now the likliehood of GSDCA to select USA over WDA is very slim. Sitasmom wrote about her experience with the GSDCA - and it is correct as an example. There are very few in GSDCA politics that really want anything to do with working dogs. The real issue is that they never want to lose their WUSV membership - it is a source of great pride. I am not going to get into GSD types, but GSDCA honestly feels a kinship to Germany and most honestly do not know what really goes on in the World with GSD's and how really estranged GSDCA is.

If GSDCA would get AKC to recognize SCHH or WDS, then the logical move would be to pull WDA functions under a committee with in GSDCA much like Agilitiy or any other venue. I think USA and WDA employees will tell you this cannot be done on a soley committee basis. The next question is would AKC fund an office to perform all the duties likeUSA and WDA do? Frankly, there is not enough revenue and that is why AKC is saying it does not make sense. The revenues of WDA and USA have been misrepresented to AKC. Now it is clear it is about money along with a control issue.

The other effects of AKC recognizing SchH could well affect FCI qualifications - we already have a split team for WUSV. Would AKC who is recognized by FCI, then have the right to field a team to FCI?

I noticed in some posts that people think WDA is the member of the WUSV. It is not. The team that qualifies through WDA is actually the GSDCA team. There used to be 2 american teams - USA and GSDCA. A years back, they were directed to have one team - because the team is made up of an odd number - they rotate each year - 2 and an alternate, and 3 and an alternate . 2009 was WDA year to have the 3 members, and USA to have 2. 2010 it is the opposite and so on.

Continued

Continued:

The ramifications of USA proposing the membership exclusion is intersting. It would only affect a member if they were a member of another GSDCA organization - it does not stop them from competing in WUSV when GSDCA hosts it or GSDCA-WDA or even GSDCA events - its only when you are requierd to be a member of one GSDCA or GSDCA-WDA to partcipate. And at this date, its only the qualifier for the WUSV GSDCA team which is held by GSDCA-WDA at this point in time. The only people penalized would be people trying to qualify in for the world team through GSDCA.

So all of this is intertwined with WDA and USA trying to come up with a solution to solidify their clubs to preserve Schutzhund and German style showing and breed standards without coming under an organiztion (AKC) which has no enforceable breed standards for registration and to provide the strongest dogs for world team compition.

SchH, Koerung, SV shows, are far more intricate in their oversight than anything AKC does. It takes years to acheive titles, elbows and hips are requierd - which is not an AKC requirement. USA and WDA do have offices dedicated to satisfying and processing all the requirements correctly. Any office for this at AKC would be in North Carolina - would any of the personel who after many years have learned how to do our paperwork, want to move there to be employed? Would we be subject to just new clerical staff and a tremendous learning curve there?

There is just so much to think about in so far as each ramification goes. Before anyone says they don't see a problem with this or that, please try to understand the background, the splits, the reason for different individuals motivations with in each club. Look at what each club has accomplished with the protection of the GSD as you would have it and then make your decsion what you think is right. You will never find a perfect club without problems, but you have a good one in USA and WDA has been good also - we are all just caught in the middle right now with this in house fighting which is either trying to make GSDCA the only game in town vis a vis AKC WDS and severing ties with WDA and then on the other hand people from both USA and WDA that are trying to be sure nothing goes wrong so we can all have what we have and enjoy.

Helpful links:

DVG American chart of organizations: http://www.dvgamerica.com/abcsdvg.html 

Agreement between GSDCA and GSDCA-WDA :
 
http://www.gsdca-wda.org/forms/July%20attachements%20to%20minutes.pdf

starts on page 54 to the end, the preamble and purpose will give all a lot of history and background.


Danny Sprietler's personal blog: http://dspreitler.wordpress.com/

WUSV Newsletters - they are in 4 languages including English: http://www.schaeferhund.de/site/index.php?id=755

WUSV North Amerian Members: http://www.schaeferhund.de/site/index.php?id=411 and

http://www.schaeferhund.de/site/index.php?id=553

AKC WDS : http://www.akc.org/events/working_dog_sport/

Check out the sidebar with links to events, results, rules etc.

The person in the working dog office of AKC is Lisa Carroll [LAC@akc.org] - they value any input on the subject of WDS - basically, they really should have information who would or would not bother to participate. Bottom line is that any activity has to generate money for the AKC to administrate it..

I am not trying to sway anyone, I am just trying to put the info out there because I have seen some misunderstandings and general lack of knowledge how things are structured. Always take everything with a grain of salt, get the facts, and form your own opinion.

Kim:  Thank you for your excellent article.   To assist people who want to read the links you provided, I am taking the liberty of making them "clickable":

DVG American chart of organizations:
 http://www.dvgamerica.com/abcsdvg.html

Agreement between GSDCA and GSDCA-WDA (starts on page 54) 
  http://www.gsdca-wda.org/forms/July%20attachements%20to%20minutes.pdf

Danny Sprietler's personal blog: 
    http://dspreitler.wordpress.com/

WUSV Newsletters - they are in 4 languages including English:

http://www.schaeferhund.de/site/index.php?id=755

WUSV North Amerian Members: 
   http://www.schaeferhund.de/site/index.php?id=411
and
   http://www.schaeferhund.de/site/index.php?id=553

AKC WDS : 
  http://www.akc.org/events/working_dog_sport/

Check out the sidebar with links to events, results, rules etc.

holy cow.... my head is swimming..... 

I dunno why the sports enthusiasts simply don't concentrate on the sport itself, regardless of the breed.  Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but it seems to me that if Schutzhund is a sport, then the breed doesn't matter.  Breed-ing, yes, but the actual breed, no.  You could have a line of heinz57 mutts that could produce perfect schutzhund dogs, the breeding could be for the athleticism and drive alone.

There are just so many groups, organizations. and clubs that are overlapping, with different goals, it's no wonder there are so many different and strongly held opinions on what a gsd should be....

Just to clarify, Schutzhund is not just a sport, it is a breed worthiness test.  Most countries do not allow you to breed your dog without most of the same prerequisites as the SV.  SV has been the gold standard : Show rating, Koerung (breed survey), AD (endurance test), BH and a minimum of a SchH1.  They also have to have hips and elbows certified and passed. 

So all except GSDCA, do not think of it as just a sport - it is a breed worthiness test to ensure that the breed will always be able to work both in character/drive and correct conformation to endure the work.  We need the clubs that will protect/ensure that dogs will be bred to a standard that includes conformation, genetic soundness, temperament, and workability. 

Thank you, Kim.  I will work my way through your information this week.  Thanks!

Kim, THANK YOU!! I hope people will read your posts and the articles you have cited. They would be very enlightening and clarifying for a lot of people.