Working dog question??? - Page 1

Hello,

I am a novice and I am trying to learn all I can about various aspects of the working side of GSD's and a question I keep having and not understanding is when I hear (or see) folks make comments on their working dogs or pups, "I'll probably never be National level" or "I'll probably never be regional level"..????

Why is that and what are they talking about exactly? What is the difference and if not National or regional level then what "level" would you be if any? Why couldn't anyone who pay the fee enter? Are there certain qualification processes to be in a regional, national ?

GSDCA-WDA National Championship ... would this obviously be a national? The one coming up in Germany would be International? I know these are several questions but I would be very appreciative of some insight. 

 Thank you in advance for sharing any knowledge you may have in this area.

Respectfully,

Joseph

Also if there is any reading material that covers this in detail I would love to know what and where I can obtain it.

If you trial at a regular club trial, and you get 220 points (70, 70, and 80), you pass and get your title. However, you need 250 points (I think...numbers are not my forte) to go on up to the next level of competition. Lots of dogs title without ever getting high scores or becoming competitors. That's all they mean...like, "I just want to pass; I don't need to excel." Not all of us are cut out for the really stressful parts! Not me, that's for sure. I hate competing. Some people love it and want to move from club trial to regionals to nationals to World. YIKES! Those are brave souls.

Hello to you too.

Ok, I will give you a quick rundown, from memory, I may be wrong on some of this, but it shouldbe fairly accurate.

What "folks" talk about is that the dog (supposedly) doesn't have it in him to compete at those higher levels. Same thing as saying, I am pretty good at football, but I won't be able to compete in B\NFL because (insert reason here)...

Also, do note that "folks" have been wrong about those dogs many times...

"if not National or regional level then what "level" would you be if any? " - Below Regional levels, there is club levels and club trials. Every Schutzhund club is required to have at least 1 trial every year. Every club belongs to a geographical region of the country. For example, my region South Central has New Mexico, Texas, Louisiana etc... You can compete at the club level (the club you train at) or some other club in your state or region. Schutzhund has 3 discipline that dogs compete in trackng, obedience and protection. Each dog and a handler are a team, the judge does not judge the dog or handler but both at the same time when they step on the field. You start with 100 points in each discipline and if you make mistakes, the points go down. You cannot get less than 70 points for each discipline and pass. For example, if you got 69 in tracking - you failed, even if your dog got 99 in obedience and 99 in protection, you still can't get your schutzhund title and you have to repeat it again at a trial you choose to enter later on.

Before you can compete in Schutzhund, you have to pass a BH test with your dog. The minimum age for that test is 15 months. Once you get that out of the way, you can compete and go for Schutzhund 1 at a minimum of 18 months of age or when you think you and the dog are ready too go for it.

If you get 270 points for example 90 tracking, 90 obedience and 90 protection = 270 total, they you qualified to compete (if you want to) at the regional level. If you want to compete at a National level, then your 270 minimum is still good, but you have to enter and compete at a Regional level as well. You don't have to win it, you just have to show up and pass, even if you get 250, you're good. There are several (2) National level trials each in a calendar year.

Every country in the world (that is the member if WUSV, of course) goes through that procedure, club, region, nation and world hierarchy.

Higher than the national level is the World level, what you called "international", it's the world championship. In order to compete there you have to win a National trial and score 270 at another national level trial.

Here in United States we have 2 organizations that are members of WUSV, one is GSD WDA and another is USA, United Schutzhund Club of America - www.germanshepherddog.com. They both have their separate club, regional and national trials and best members from both teams compete in WUSV as a combined team for US of A.

Any easier now?

Thank you for the information. When you say regular club trial I asssume you mean a local club? Ansd when you say pass and get your title what title are you referring to? Schutzhund title? Based on what you told me it seems to be really challenging and interesting!

Thanks again for your help!

Joseph

Yes, a Schutzhund title. Or actually, when you get to the nationals and world competition, you're talking about Sch 3 only.
 

Much easier and not quite as complicated as I made it out to be! I am going to save your information in a WORD file so I can have it in case I forget some aspect but again it seems to me to be real interesting and challenging and a "fun" thing to do.

Thank you for your information. I really do appreciate it as I plan to get a pup (working lines) and start working with him so any/all information I get is appreciated.

Thanks again and God bless!

Joseph

Thank you for clarifying that for me VomMarischal. Again it is definitely appreciated and I will be putting your information along with Adi Ibrahimbegovic's information in a WORD file for safe keeping.

Thanks again and God bless,

Joseph

You're welcome and God bless you too. Yes, it is challenging, fun and in some cases addicting. There are many "superstar" performers competing in Schutzhund, but the bread and butter of Schutzhund is club level members that just come out to the club, train over the weekend and have fun with their dog.

Many times throughout the course of your life you will catch yourself thinking about it, analyzing stuff, having fun with your puppy, notice slight changes in his/her behavior etc... Many times I have gotten creative with my dog, as my training style is a bit unorthodox. My logic being - it doesn't matter HOW you train the dog, as long as it does what it should be doing.

Yesterday, after driving home from the park where we did some heeling, obedience etc.. it occured to me... He's never been exposed to gunshots! As you may or may not know, in Schutzhund trials, any level 1 2 or 3 while the dog is heeling with you, a caliber 22 pistol is fired at a close distance, like 50 feet. The dog is supposed to be indifferent to the gunfire and focusing his attention on you.

My solution? I took a different route going home, parked very close to the gun range and played with him in the car while all kinds of guns were blasting nearby having his full attention on me. He was fine, rewarded and after 5 minutes we left and went home. That's hardly considered "training", but it actualy is, so just get creative and have fun with your dog.

Of course before he enters the trial, we'll have to have a few "Glock sessions", maybe a shotgun sessions in the wilderness to bulletproof him.

Nah, it's not really complicated, once you get into it, you'll know it in your sleep literally. Many times I have gone to sleep thinking about a training session I had that day, what could be done better, what went good, dog's reactions etc...

Your first step is to get a puppy from proven working bloodlines if you want to compete in Schutzhund.

Then, become a member of USA and become a member of a Schutzhund club in your city.

also, if you don't feel like doing tracking, then SchA title is available as well. That only involves obedience and protection, the dog does not compete in tracking.

Other stuff the dog can compete in is Ad test, an endurance test of sorts. The dog has to trot for 12 miles (one short break and little water at 7 miles) usualy by his handler side while he rides a bicycle. Not run - TROT. After 12 miles the dog should not be visibly exausted and should do a few simple commands, like, sit, down to pass the test.

keep in mind that your puppy should not be jogging or runnig with you until he is at least 14-18 months old, as the growth plates in his bones have not settled yet.

There are also other titles you may know about like HGH - a herding trial title. As the name implies, it is a German SHEPHERD dog and that was its first real "job" before schutzhund, blind people assistance, police, mine detectione tc... came in play.

other titles are Fh - tracking trial where dog competes in tracking exclusively.

Also, as the other poster pointed out, beyond regionals (where you can still compete sch1 and 2 levels), on national and world level it is only schutzhund 3.

Also, the judges pencil gets progressively "sharper" the higher the trial is. While he may be kind of forgiving of a newbie doing his first dog for schutzhund 1 at the club level, he may punish and not let fall through the cracks the stuff he tolerated when that same person shows up for Shc2 at the regionals. It gets even tougher at the nationals... And at the worlds, usualy 1 or 2 mistakes and 2 or 3 points deduction in any given dicipline separates the world champion from the dog that took like, 15th place or something, it's that intense.