Protective trait in temprament - Page 1

Is this being weeded out in modern GSD? IS this due to changing times and changing roles of the GSD?

your valued opinions

cheers
 

I certainly hope not, I see this as natural trait in the breed. It seems that in this day and time, its needed more then ever.

. The dogs of today do not mind so much now.

will this apply strictly to the sport dog or the point dog?

cheers
 

Quote: "Is this being weeded out in modern GSD? IS this due to changing times and changing roles of the GSD?"

Hello Vikram,
I guess the question these days is more to do with the breeding purpose of the dog; whether it is for law enforcement, personal protection or sport.  Max v Stephanitz would be turning in his grave other than to say "Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog for I have struggled all my life for that aim!!"

Here's an interesting discussion in the PDB which I think is relevant to your question:
www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/167548.html

What is your view on this?

 I wanted your opinion on various aggression since it would be nice to hear from somone who is currenlty not weeding out active defense aggression. If you could give me some modern day GSD with predominant Active Defense aggression?

Social aggression being totally out on the other end of the spectrum

Your valued views

regards

I read the previous discussion on protective trait in temperment.  I do not believe temperment is either good or bad, temperment is a matter of quantity, not quality.  A dog has either some, very little, or full of temperment.  It should refer to the amount of drive a dog has to do work, and that is how the old school of thought in Europe evaluated dogs in regards to temperment.  The protective trait is a part of that drive or drives.  I attended a big seminar in Ohio a couple of years ago with my dog, Dolf.  The seminar was with a well known German trainer, who remarked during my obedience session to the other attendees that he did not see my dog as a personal protection dog, because he saw no social aggression.  I inwardly laughed.  The next day when we did bite work, the same man was amazed at the agression demonstrated by Dolf.  When he slipped the sleeve, Dolf made one small circle, dropped the sleeve in front of him, and eyeballed the hell out of him.  The trainer looked at me and said"that dog does not play".  he later remarked that my boy reminded him of the police dogs they used to have in Germany years ago.  The whole point of this is that a dog with a sound mind does not have to be constantly on edge to have the proper protective quality when needed.  The ability to channel between prey/defense/and a neutral, calm state of mind is what I look for.  Many sport and police dogs are way too nervy these days. There are still good dogs out there, you just have to know what to look for.   

What is the pedigree of your dog kgk9?

I have in Australia which is ultimately of German showlines, a male with a high level of social aggression and protective instinct to the point he has been declared temperament faulty especially given the amount of soft, weak nerved GSD's bred down under in recent times and the fact that little dogsport is conducted in the country to encourage breedings of GSD's with a high level of working ability. There are some good working lines and show lines bred for police/security work which my dog was bred by a breeder specialising in maintaining working abilities, but are few and far between.

 I think this is again a US centric mentality lot of trainers especially in America confuse Social Aggression with Active Defense aggression. Active defense aggression is pretty much gone in modern GSD ( In my opinion) what is exits  is Strong Passive aggression which is a pseudo aggression form. I'm not saying it does not work but if you look at dogs like Sagus and Falko Sindern and Jago jungen Hansen that is gone now.

regards