Dealing With Jealous Behaviour (Non-GSD) - Page 1

A friend of mine has two rat terriers that are allowed the free run of her farm for vermin control. The young female is at the age where she's trying to test the boundaries, and recently started attacking the older female. A very bad fight erupted this week, and both dogs have a few puncture wounds from it.

The owner started observing the dogs very carefully after this, and realized it's attention from her and her husband that triggers the fights. If she tries petting the older dog, the younger one goes for her throat.

Any suggestions on dealing with this, other than keeping them permanently separated, which would limit their usefullness for vermin control?

When the younger one attacked the older last night, her husband drop-kicked the perpetrator halfway across the yard. It worked, but she's hoping for a solution that's a little less brutal..... 

I'm not exactly sure how old the young dog is. I do know she has yet to have her first heat, so she's under a year old. Yeah, you know, that teenage period, when both dogs and kids start testing the boundaries!

Post-script: I realize this is a common problem with females, and there MAY be no solution. However, since the behaviour has just started, and the owners have identified the trigger, I think it's worth a try to see if it can be nipped in the bud.

It's time in this young bitch's life to start some real serious obedience training, Bill Köhler style. As Cesar Milain (the Dog Whisperer) would say, you've got to assert yourself as the alpha in the pack. Not saying that this will be the sure fix, but it's the only thing which will give you a chance with this bitch. Bitch fights can be very, very nasty, and all the moreso with a feisty breed like those in the terrier group.

If the older bitch is not initiating or is half hearted, give it enough time and incidents like this, and she will hate that little bitch with an undying passion.. That's the safe way to bet.

Dogs understand a hard hand when it comes to these matters. Pack discipline must be rigid, and consequences for misbehavior must be potentially dire. This is one of the few situations in which hanging or throttling may be justified. But, if it came to that, I'd think it would be better to place the wee bitchling in another home and replace her with a male.

In the mean time, you can separate them and begin obedience training on both, especially the little one, until you are sure you have their attention. Then, bring them together on leash and reinforce your authority. Two handlers will be needed, "just in case". Leave nothing to chance, and make sure you have control over everything that happens. If you cannot get another handler to take the older bitch, then tie the older bitch in a manner where you can limit and control her actions. Then introduce the younger bitch to the scene, and work her in obedience / control. To test her, tie her up and then pet and interact with the other older one, in close range (but not able to reach). Make sure you have some good heavy gloves on, or boots, to protect yourself if one of the dogs gets excited, then you can do your corrections without so much risk of getting bitten, yourself. If there is a lot of excitement, you need to help calm, as well as to correct misbehavior.

Part of the problem is that when dogs get really excited in fighting mode, they are pumping out so much adrenalyn and endorphins that they may not even feel any pain, or notice your attempts. Because they are so pumped up, you can get bitten by accident. Don't let this happen. Keep control at all times, and protect your hands and legs by wearing gloves and boots. Keep your face away from hazard, too. The adrenalyn and endorphins feel pretty good to the dogs, so reinforcing the fighting behavior.

It's not easy, working such relatvely small and quick dogs in obedience. But, it can be done. The object is to get the dogs' attention and to achieve control.

They need to keep those dogs on a leash and correct it immediately when they see the younger one tense up.  It might help to roll that youngster over on her back and hold her down while holding the older one over her so she sees who the dominant one is.  Drop kicking may work tho...I wouldn't be above it.  He's getting his point across.

There is an additonal component which a lot of people miss, and you can use it to your advantage, here.

These behavioral problems tend to be expressed in territorial situations. In other words, at home, in the car, etc. In the home, confrontations often happen in doorway areas, especially outside doors. When dogs meet in a doorway, they are by necessity constrained by the architecture, so that they are face-to-face. Confrontations (hostile) are much more likely to occur in what the dog regards as his own territory. You take the same two dogs out into neutral territory, on a walk together, and they are far less likely to get into trouble. In neutral territory, dogs tend to sniff each other over briefly, then string out together into a pack, moving together with purpose.. hunting / exploring behavior. This is a good part of the reason that dog parks work so well. And, if you put two dogs together into a small space, a hostile confrontation is far more likely to occur.. especially if they feel that this area is part of "their" space, or territory.

Sometimes dogs will treat the area right around their master / mistress as something to be defended, too.

You can achieve control, I think, but what happens when you are not there to intervene? Socially ambitious / competitive dogs and bitches can again become confrontational and get into fights when the "alpha" (you, if you claim that role) is out shopping. That changes the dynamic, and the games can begin, again. I have known of someone this happened to. She went out shopping, left her three bitches together (they were raised together) and came home to find one dead. A "lucky" tooth found her jugular vein, and she bled out. My advice would be never to leave two bitches together, but absolutely never, ever leave three of them together, as two can gang up on one. It usually starts between two, and a third jumps in. The first bitch to go down will get the worst of the deal, all former affections notwithstanding.

I'd give it a try, but you're going to have to separate them and work them individually, then bring them together under very controlled circumstances, reinforcing your authority and control. calming and rewarding good behavior, then eventually take them out on walks on neutral ground and try to get them refocused on the idea of hunting and working together. Avoid keeping them in areas where they can meet in doorways (going in and out) and small areas where there is no opportunity to avoid proximity.

You can see the trouble coming by the look in their eyes, and body posture. That would be the time to intervene with a sharp word, or perhaps a distraction, like a toy.

These things can take a lot of work and diligence. If you don't have the time and commitment to see it through, it may be better to find a home for the instigator, or keep the two permanently separated.

I would only also add that they will need to do all the ritualized stuff like always feeding the older bitch first, petting her first, she goes out/comes in first, everything to reinforce to both dogs,  the humans agree with the established pack order.  She will continue to test the pack order though, it's nature. I think maybe the reason bitches fight continually and so viciously is because when they are hormonal, their bodies are telling them to establish dominance in order to be the one who will procreate, I think in the case of females, spaying does help.

Excellent responses! The owner has already suggested alpha-rolling the younger dog. I suggested leash corrections, but that's not a practical idea unless the dogs are inside or in a confined area. Outside there is too much risk of them getting caught on something.

I'll see how they feel about obedience training. They are farmers, not dog trainers, and for the most part, just let their dogs be dogs. However, I think they've already realized if they don't get the upper hand here, the next fight may result in far more serious damage!

They do understand basic canine behaviour, though, and are aware when the bitchs start sending threatening signals to each other. They are planning to get the young one spayed, but wanted to give her a chance to mature first. Their vet is one of the ones that believes you should wait until at least a year old.

I've told her spaying isn't any guarantee. And the behaviour needs to be addressed NOW, not later.

Deb, I've kicked the odd dog myself, in a desperate effort to break up a fight. Much better than risking your hands! However, as far as dominance goes, que sera, sera. The owner can't determine that. The dogs will have to work it out for themselves. All the owner can do is make them realize that fighting isn't the right way to go about it. Dominance signals can be much more subtle than beating the crap out of each other!  A push, a shove, always being the first to get to a ball or toy that's been thrown... 

 Drop kicking may work tho...I wouldn't be above it. He's getting his point across......her husband drop-kicked the perpetrator halfway across the yard....

     Boy it's nice to see people appreciate a" little" drop kick across the yard, to a what,10-20lb dog. God I feel so horrible that I tried to save my dog....hypocrits...someone needs to call humane society here...How about you Mystere??? THAT's right up your alley.   OR is it only MY DOGS you care SOOOO Much about????????????


DebiSue
Drop kicking may work tho...I wouldn't be above it. He's getting his point across.

Some real special trainers here....

So, you'd just let them rip each other to pieces again? It's a last-ditch effort to break up a fight, not a recommended training techique!  Personally, I'd rather my dog have a boot print on its butt than deep puncture wounds or tears from another dog's teeth!

But whatever floats your boat... 

I had 2 males get into a fight, I used a shovel, you will use what ever is necissary in the moment to make sure more serious damage isn,t created Sunsilver is right no one enjoys these things but on occasion they are necissary, unfortunatly.