Dog's Pedigree - Page 1

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by jaggirl47 on 19 July 2009 - 06:07

So, I just spent the past few hours piecing together my dog's pedigree and I have alot of questions.  As most of you know, I am the one that posted about the skinny GSD's for sale (and no I wasn't trying to offend anyone).  I am taking the findings of my boys pedigree to the vet with me due to all of the hereditary issues.  If anyone has time, please look up his pedigree on here and let me know if you guys have heard anything about those on his sire's side.  His dam looks to me to have an overall good pedigree (but I never payed attention until now), but his sire's side is almost blank.  It goes back 4 generations.  Also,  I noticed his  great great great grandsire, Elohim's Brave Silver Prince is the sire of his other great great great grandsire Oak Vali'S Silver Mack.  Oak Vali'S Silver Mack was the sire to his great great dam Sweetie Beulah de Perry.  Oak Vali'S Silver Mack was then bred to his daughter Sweetie Beulas de Perry.  Which would make him the great great great sire, great great sire, and kinda uncle right? (That last uncle thing was a joke)  Isn't this the type of breeding that increases the risks of hereditary issues?  I am not trying to start a fight or be funny or ask stupid questions.  I really am trying to get to the down and dirty of why my dog is unhealthy and I would greatly appreciate any help I could get on this.

Thank you all in advance.

Oh yeah, and my dog's name is Zappa Malachious.  No, I didn't name him.  My ex-husband is an idiot.

Sunsilver

by Sunsilver on 19 July 2009 - 14:07

Oh yeah, and my dog's name is Zappa Malachious. No, I didn't name him. My ex-husband is an idiot.

ROTFLMAO!!

Sorry, couldn't help myself. And he can't spell, either. It should be 'malicious'

ma⋅li⋅cious  /məˈlɪʃəs/  [muh-lish-uhs] 

–adjective 1. full of, characterized by, or showing malice; malevolent; spiteful: malicious gossip.
2. Law. vicious, wanton, or mischievous in motivation or purpose

Okay, although your boy's pedigree smacks of back yard breeding (no titles on any of the American dogs) it's not as bad as it could be. Yes, there is some inbreeding several generations back, but if you look at the front page of his pedigree, you will notice it says 'no common ancestry in 5 generations'.  So, because the inbreeding was so far back, there has been a chance for the harm it may have caused to be reduced by being diluted with new genes from the more recent ancestors.

However, back yard breeders are well-known for breeding one animal to another without carefully analysing their individual strengths and weaknesses. They also do not usually bother with health testing for faults such as hip dysplasia. So, of course, there is no guarantee that he won't inherit some problems.

You say you're taking him to the vet. What problems are you concerned about?
 


by jaggirl47 on 19 July 2009 - 15:07

So, it isn't supposed to be malicious.  It's the name Malachi with an ous on the end to make it Malachious.  Like I said, he is an idiot.  But I won custody of my boy in the divorce so it all works out.  I can live with the bad name.

Zappa has suffered from chronic diarreah and vomiting since the age of 1.5 yrs.  He is a large dog who was at 94 lbs (a very healthy weight for him, not overweight at all)  and is now down to 71.3 lbs.  He goes back to the vet today (my vet is open for a half day on Sundays) and will get reweighed which we have to do biweekly.  His last weigh in he went from 74.6 or 8 to 71.3 in 2 weeks.  He was tested for EPI with the cTLI test.  His result was 7.2, with normal range between 5.7 and 45.2.  He was in the low normal range so the vet wants to retest in a few months.  He has had more CBC and electrolyte tests than I could count.  His serum pH level was 7.48 which as I understand it, that is very high.  His last Lipase level was 1726 which is extremely high.  His kidneys look great.  It's all GI.  His last tests that came back are his cobalamine and folate show a normal cobalamine level with a high folate which is indicitive for SIBO. Also, the vet feels he has IBD due to the fact that even though he has a diet switch and has done better, his stools come out green ar light tan and he still suffers from vomiting of greenish-brownish bile

We have done numerous trips to the e-vet for his GI issues (they always like to flare up when his normal vet is closed).  He has been given fluids, parvo tests, clavimox, flagyl, stool samples, blood draws, etc.  We would always walk out with the diagnosis of pancreatitis when it wasn't, it was GI.

So, now we are finally on the track to treating him properly and getting some weight back on him.  Hopefully, no more bloated belly and massive gas and diarreah.

 

And yes, he was definately from a backyard breeder.  I was young (22) and knew I wanted a Shepherd for my son (I was 5 months pregnant).  He does have hip displaysia (diagnosed around age 3, definately genetic) which he gets glucosamine for as well as his GI issues.  I'm lucky he doesn't have worse things, though.  It could be much worse.  His parents had shitty temperments (not approachable at all).  But I chose him because out of a litter of 12, 11 of them ignored me and he crawled in my lap and fell asleep.

Does his distant ancestry look OK though?  I think he has a lot more German blood than the American.  He's a beautiful dog with a great temperment, wonderful with my kids.  He did have a great drive in him until his GI issues started getting worse.


Sunsilver

by Sunsilver on 19 July 2009 - 16:07

Jaggirl, he does have some decent German dogs in his pedigree, but that's no guarantee of anything, because what has come from the American side is unknown.

A German dog that has its Schutzhund degree has been trained in tracking, obedience and protection work. It is gun-sure (will not spook at a gun shot). If it has KKl1 or 2 after its name, it has been assessed by a breed warden, and certified as being suitable for breeding. It will also have had its hips x-rayed and passed as free of dysplasia (the German A-stamp, which is slightly different from OFA.)  If it has a VA rating in front of its name, it has been shown at the annual Sieger show, and been given a rating of 'outstanding'.  A 'V' rating means the dog is considered 'Excellent'.

The American dogs in your pedigree have none of this. IF the information you've posted is correct, none have even been titled in obedience, so unless you can meet these dogs in person, you have no idea of what they bring to the table in terms of virtues or faults. And when two dogs mate, the outcome is very unpredictable as to what genes the offspring will inherit. With both of the parents being spooks, you're fortunate your boy turned out as well as he did.

Good luck in solving the GI issues! I hope at least you're on the right track now.

by jaggirl47 on 19 July 2009 - 17:07

Yes, we are finally on the right track for the GI issues.  As far as the nerves, he has a fear of thunderstorms but from what I understand, that is quite common.  He doesn't get vicious at all.  He actually jumps into my lap and shakes, lol.  I have to pet him until it's over.  Luckily, Texas hasn't really had many storms in the past 2 years.  I have also been very lucky with the fact that he is so loving to all people invited in the house.  The only thing I have noticed is that he has a tendancy to stand much closer to the kids when other people are in our house and that I like.  And yes, I agree about his American Pedigree.  I am also thinking his issues possibly are on his sire's side.  I haven't been able to find much info about any of them.  His dam's side to me looks a hell of alot better.  I am trying to track the kennels or owners down so I can try to find which side his issues come from.  Whichever line it is probably should be stopped, but unfortunately, too many have been bred and it would be too difficult to stop them all.  I just hope other owners with the same lineage are not having the same issues or even much worse issue. And like I said before, I am taking his pedigree (which on the dam's side can be traced back about 12-14 generations) so he can compare it with the Texas A&M's database.  If I find out more info, I will post it.

by jaggirl47 on 19 July 2009 - 18:07

You know, I am so sickened to see what unethical breeders do.  I am searching out my dog's background and on the dam's side, he has some amazing lineage.

1972 Sieger Marko vom Cellerland.
          VA6 Kai vom Silberbrand, 7 generations back, is the son of Marko vom Cellerland.

Mutz von der Pelztierfarm
          V 28 Nick von der Wienerau, 7 generations back
          V Palme vom Wildsteiger Land, 6 generations back.  Top producing bitch.
          VA2 Ulme vom Wildsteiger Land, (Vize-Siegerin), 5 generations back, son of Palme vom Wildersteiger, part of "U" litter Vom Wildsteiger Land

VA2 Quanto von der Wienerau
          1980's-1990's, his progeny dominated successive Seiger shows
          regarded as top sire of his generation, 7 generations back

V1 Canto von der Wienerau, had lose hocks and haemophilia, but a top producing stud
          V2 Argus vom Klämmle, 7 generations back
          V1 Argus von Aducht, comsidered to be one of the best specimens of the breed in any era, 6 generations back

It is very obvious to me that my boy gets his looks through V Palme vom Wildsteiger Land line.  However, looks are not everything when careless breeders get ahold of these amazing lines.  It's sickening and they end up with unkown traits and genetic illnesses.




blair built gsd

by blair built gsd on 22 July 2009 - 02:07

How far back in the pedigree do you guys think you are still geting some of the good things out of that dog i have heard after 4 or 5 generations the only thing you are geting from those relatives is dna

by jaggirl47 on 22 July 2009 - 03:07

My point of the last post is that my dog originally started out with great lines.  However, shitbag breeders with no respect for the GSD got ahold of them and basically turned them to shit with careless breeding.  And my boy does have the coloring of Palme, but that's all he got.





 


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