Tracking - How much do you help? - Page 1

Interested in getting some different perspectives on this....
For a young dog that likes to track, understands tracking, but gets off the track on occasion, how much do you help your dog?
One approach would be that the dog should never be allowed to get off track. If it does, the handler immediately helps/corrects the dog. Another approach would be to allow the dog to get off track (within reason) and allow the dog to problem solve, work it out and find the track. I see pros and cons to either....the first approach requires the dog to be more precise and to not even make the mistake to begin with. However, by doing this, do you risk making your dog too dependent upon help when he does loose the track. The second approach gives the dog an opportunity to work it out and find the track but in the process are you teaching the dog that it's ok to be less precise....and in time do those dogs become habitually sloppy.

So with that said, here are some different scenarios for a young dog (3 yrs old), that likes to track, and understands tracking......tell me what you would do.
1) For every 3 corners you do, your dog nails 2 of them but the 3rd one, your dog over shoots by 2-3 steps....do you correct immediately or allow it to problem solve?
2) For every 3 straight legs of tracking, your dog is dead on for 2 legs. On the 3rd leg, your dog is starting to drift a foot or two to one side...do you correct as soon as the drifting occurs or do you allow your dog to problem solve and get back on the track?
3) Your dog is doing a straight leg and suddenly makes an unplanned turn....do you correct immediately or allow the dog 2-3 steps to realize he's off the track and allow it to problem solve?
4) You're laying a track in a forest preserve and you've unintentionally come upon a patch of grass that's heavily matted and looks like a picnic occurred the day before (matted grass, no food or garbage though). Do you bait more footsteps as you proceed through the matted grass and help ensure no mistakes or do you bait heavily immediately after the matted grass and allow mistakes but reward for solving the problem?

"It depends."

Basically, there are three 'styles' of tracking.

One is the Schutzhund style, where the dog is expected to go methodically from footstep to footstep, and never lift its head. Shock collars are sometimes used to correct the dog if it does lift its head, or stray off track. Tracks are heavily baited, usually every step for dogs that are beginning to track.

Second is the AKC style of tracking. Tracks are baited heavily to begin with. The dog is expected/allowed to problem solve, although in the beginning, the handler may keep him/her on a very short leash, and/or walk beside the dog to make sure it stays focussed on the track. Air scenting is not penalized, and it is expected that the dog may track somewhat to the side of the actual track on a windy day.

Third is the police style of tracking. The focus is on the person being tracked. Bait is NOT used...criminals do not leave trails of breadcrumbs for the police to follow. Air scenting is allowed, and the dog may be set loose to search an area. (The SAR method of tracking is more or less the same, except in SAR you usually don't have to worry about the person being tracked shooting your dog....)

So, it really depends on what feels right to you, and what venue you are training and competing in.

Sorry for not clarifying in the original post.....schutzhund tracking. If you have a young dog that enjoys and understands schutzhund tracking, is methodical footstep to footstep but makes the occasional mistake, what do you do....correct or allow problem solving?

Dogpile, I like my dogs to problem solve on their own. The track teaches the dog to track....I lay my tracks to teach the dog how to track.  I may want to work on a specific issue for a period of tracking training with a dog like you describe.  One thing I do is lay tracks with "step offs" where the track ends and restarts 3' to the right or left.  This style of difficulty teaches the dog to problem solve and maintain it's composure.  I know exactly where the "step off" is and to see the dog's reaction when it loses the track.  The body language will change, tail may come up, the dog will cast to reacquire the track.  I want the dog to remain calm and not panic or get stressed.  The dog learns problem solving and gains confidence.  I let the dog work out the problem on it's own.

Here is my reasoning: in training you should always know where the track is.  If a friend or club member lays your track, they must know where the track is and accompany you on the track.  In a trial, SchH 2 or 3 you won't know where the track goes  unless a fiend lays it at your own club trial.  The "step off" teaches you when the dog has lost the track and it teaches the dog to remain calm and to keep working.  The loss of track indication from your dog is very helpful in a trial if your dog misses a turn, you now have a way to read your dog and can simply stop and let the dog work it out.     Your dog will also remain calm and not become stressed. 

I lay tracks with different difficulties, time, length, turns, temperature, wind, amount of food, etc..  There are many variables on a track.  I may not increase track length and age on the same track.  A really long track may only be a 1/2 hour old.  A shorter track with serpentines or 2 turns may be 3 or 4 hours old, depending on temperature even older or not as aged.  My training tracks rarely look like SchH trial tracks. 

I never correct my dog on a track for a mistake or missing a turn if the dog continues to work.  I will correct for lack of concentration or focus with a trained dog or if the dog stops working.  If my male tracks near a bush or tree and tries to mark he will get corrected.  If my dog is still working through a problem I won't correct the dog,  I will let it work the problem out on it's own.  You can't correct in a trial and the dog needs to know how to problem solve on it's own. 

JMO,

Jim

IMO, if you're correcting a dog so it can't make mistakes your an idiot.  A dog, no matter what venue you're training for, will have to problem solve on its own during a track at some point.  if you think it won't happen, then you're extrememly lucky or you haven't run very many tracks.  They need to learn to work thru stress,and the stress of overshooting a corner or losing the track or how wind affects a track etc. 

Dogs have run tracks with their noses never coming up or their speed ever changing, just head down and go.  Never mind they were no where near the track, but figured if they kept their nose down and kept moving they wouldn't get beat up by their handler. 

Not saying a dog never gets corrected on a track, cause that happens too at some point.  But I certainly wouldn't start training that way.  i give them a good chance to make and work thru a lot of different mistakes before corrections start to come in to play and for all those scenerios you posted my answer for all of them is, it depends, on a lot of things.  What happend the day before tracking?  what are the conditions?  the wind, time of day etc.  What type of track did I lay?  What are the rewards? What am I working on? etc.  There's a lot more than just how many tracks and how old the dog is that go into deciding what to do next with a dog.

Get video on tracking from GOTFRID DELDIE  will answer all your questions and shows all the wrong thing most people do on tracking . and when and how to correct your dog  . I correct my dog only when  he has done tons of tracking and if he goes off the track or miss turns without showing any sign that he has lost the track and correction is one quick jerk with no verbal correction