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by Sunsilver on 26 June 2009 - 15:06
Too bad Louise and Hodie aren't around anymore. I could use their expertise! I'm pretty stressed out right now.
Star was spayed yesterday as her OFA results came back mildly dysplastic in one hip. She also had an umbilical hernia reduced. I noticed even before she came home that there were bloodstains around the incision, which I thought were from the surgery. They'd put some sort of powder on the wound, which I now realize was probably to stop the bleeding, as pretty soon I realized the wound was oozing.
I had to go out to a potluck dinner, and my room mate agreed to dog-sit. When I came back, she reported she wasn't bothering the wound, which was a relief. I'd asked the vet for a collar to keep her from licking, but was told that they 'don't do that anymore' as it stresses the animal too much! I then told him what a determined chewer Star was: she'll chew at a single flea bite until the area is bald! He told me I'd have to find a pet store that sold collars, as they didn't stock them.
I had to clean blood off the rug several times last night, so Star spent the night locked in her crate, as my bedroom is carpeted. (Not my choice, but it's too nice a carpet to rip out. I just move into this house in September.)
When she got up this morning the pad in her crate was stained with blood, and she'd obvously been licking the incision. I felt it and it was dry: only a faint trace of blood.
Then, I went downstairs, and Star had a long drink at her water bowl. When she was done there was about a teaspoon of blood on the floor. After letting her out to do her business, I had to secure her on the tiled area of the floor. She was pacing around, and every few feet there was a fresh drop of blood.
I phoned the vet's answering service, and he got back to me right away, and told me to bring her in.
He inspected the wound and bandaged it, then put one of those stiff anti-lick collars on her. He said the licking was aggravating the bleeding, and if she just left it alone for 24 hours, hopefully it would stop.
Right now, she's in her crate, looking very sorry for herself. I gave her a dose of the pain medication, and she's had some food (she didn't eat yesterday.) The bandage has slipped back to the point where it is no longer covering the incision, which is still leaking, of course. The collar has slipped around on her neck so the wide part is on top instead of underneath, and I'm watching carefully to see if she is still able to reach the wound.
Can any of you long-time breeders out there who have spayed numerous females when their puppy raising days are over give me some advice/reassurance on this? I'm a registered nurse, so I know she's not in danger of bleeding to death, but I'm not happy about this either. How likely is this to stop on its own, as the vet says it will?
by Ryanhaus on 26 June 2009 - 16:06
Hi Sunsilver,
I had Mira spayed a couple of years back she'll be 9 this year, and when Mira came home from getting spayed, I could barely see an incision, I'd have sweared the vet didn't even spay her, it was a very little cut, Mira was lucky.
On the other hand a few years back I had a lab that needed an emergency c-section for her first litter, so the emergency vet
talked me into spaying her right away on the table after delivering all her pups, I wasn't going to breed her anymore,
cause I didn't want a c-section each time, too big an operation. Anyway, when I brought her home she had a considerable amount of bleeding that scared the heck out of me, but they reassured me it would slow down Thank God it did!
She was fine.
I told the
breeder what had happened and he said never get your dog fixed just after giving birth cause they could bleed to death, as all the blood vessels are engorged with blood, so boy, did I learn something new that day.
Just don't let her jump around too much, keep her calm, it should slow, sounds like you solved the problem with the anti-lick collar
your girl should be just fine! Remember, the vets have seen alot too.....
by Sunsilver on 26 June 2009 - 16:06
I put her outside to pee when I got home, and when I looked out the window, she was jumping three feet in the air, trying to catch squirrels!
Star, OTOH, is so sore I had to lift her out of my SUV as she was in too much pain to jump...
Mira was 9, so I"m assuming she'd had puppies? I know that makes the spay more difficult on the female.
I just wish it weren't the weekend coming up! I have no idea what to do in an emergency in this little one-horse town. I think the vet covers his own emergencies, through an answering service. He did come to the office to see Ranger once on a weekend, and give him medication for diarrhea. (The clinic is closed all weekend, and only open 9 am - 3 pm on weekdays.
by DebiSue on 26 June 2009 - 19:06
We had our old girl spayed at 18mo and she came through like a champ. Then she came into heat! The Vet told us he must have missed a bit and even the smallest piece will cause them to go into heat. So he spayed her a second time but he really opened her up to find that little piece and make sure he got it all. She was in so much pain I had to make her lie down, she wouldn't even move. She ended up laying on her back with her side and feet on the couch, it must have helped relieve the pressure. Her tummy was bruised black and she was miserable for several days. Even though he didn't charge us for the additional surgery (as if I would pay) and he paid to have our carpet cleaned and paid the other Vet (we took her in on a Saturday thinking she had a urinary infection), we did not go back. If she hadn't come back in such a sorry state we would probably still be with him but I just could not forgive him for the bruising. 
And that pic of Star would melt anyone's heart. Poor poor baby! Keep us updated on her condition. 
Deb
by Louise M. Penery on 26 June 2009 - 23:06
Check the color Star's mucous membranes (non--pigmented areas of her gums/inside of upper lips) for CRT. Also, check the color of her sclera. If these membranes are pale or CRT is >2 sec or so, she could be bleeding internally. The easiest way to determine if there is bleeding into the abdomen is via a belly tap.
Bleeding may occur if the uterine stump is poorly ligated. Was Star on IV fluids during surgery? Sometimes, the uterine stump may appear to be adequately ligated. However, there may be a subsequent decrease in BP towards the end of a surgery while sutures are still being applied to the abdominal wall.
IOW, as BP drops, blood leakage from the stump may appear to be negligible. If a bitch is not on IV fluids (yes, it costs a tad more) during surgery--which fluids can result in an increase of blood volume and, therefore, reflect a rise in BP. Only with an increase in BP, can the surgeon daub the stump with gauze sponges to determine if stump sutures are secure.
I speak from experience. Years ago, a bitch of mine had a C-section spay--with no IV catheter or fluids. After the eight pups were delivered, there was a sufficient drop in BP to cause the stump to appear to be adequately ligated. During post-op, I triaged the bitch and noticed pale mucous membranes an increased CRT. A belly tap was positive for internal bleeding.
Fortunately, my other bitch visiting the clinic was a universal blood donor type. In order to staunch the bleeding, the first bitch required a second surgery during which, she received a donor blood transfusion and an auto-transfusion from the blood that had accumulated within the peritoneal cavity.
A nightmare!!
Have you considered buying a Bite Not collar to keep your girl from licking her incision? You may order such a collar from JB Wholesale: http://www.jbpet.com/default.aspx?ns_md=Paid&ns_sc=Adwords&ns_cn=Google01&ns_tm=J-B+Wholesale&gclid=CPDtvYL5qJsCFRYiagodCil3DA
by Sunsilver on 27 June 2009 - 01:06
This is what's happening. When I went back to the vet a second time, he gave her an injection of coagulant, and bandaged her belly really tightly. Tehre was very little bleeding after that. However, over the afternoon, the bandage slipped down until it was covering only a very small part of the incision, and it was really constricting her belly. So, I removed it. Within a very short time, there was a lake of blood on the floor. The tight wrapping had been preventing the blood from draining.
I calle dup the vet, and agreed to meet him in at the clinic, When he checked her gums and conjunctiva, he said they looked okay, and she seemed very perky. I told him they were definitely paler than they had been this morning, and what was he going to do: wait for her to go into shock? I also told him that both Star's breeder and another breeder I know had said they'd never, in decades of breeding, had this happen to them, and he needed to go back in and stop the bleeding. I also had a fellow RN tell me the same thing.
He sat there for a bit, obviously not wanting to operate. Finally, he said, "Okay, I'll take her in."
When Star stood up there was another large pool of blood underneath her belly. No wonder he changed his mind!
So, she's in surgery as I type. Good thoughts and prayers would be much appreciated!
Louise, thank you for stopping by! I really, really appreciate your input.
by Sunsilver on 27 June 2009 - 01:06
They lost Star's mom yesterday. She had to be put to sleep due to cancer in the bones of her shoulder.
Rest in peace, Imp-Cen's Wings of Grace.....
by hexe on 27 June 2009 - 01:06
IOW, when it comes to figuring out the source of the 'hoofbeats', the von Willebrand's would be a horse, while everything else would fall into zebra territory.
If you want more info on the hereditary lack of platelet procoagulant activity condition, go here:
http://tinyurl.com/p23b3a
by Sunsilver on 27 June 2009 - 02:06
I think Lousie's assessment was bang on the money. The vet did not use IV fluids during the surgery as he said if he did that, his clients wouldn't be able to afford to pay. When he opened her up, he found a large blood clot on the stump of the uterus, and a lot of blood and serous fluid in her abdomen. He says the bleeding had stopped and that surgery really wasn't necessary, however I'm not convinced. He removed the clot, suctioned the fluid, and put another suture on the stump. She's home, she actually jumped into my SUV, though I had to lift her down when we arrive home.
He's given me antibiotics, so hopefully things will be okay now... [crosses fingers!]
Her breeder reports there are no known bleeding disorders in her bloodlines.
by sueincc on 27 June 2009 - 03:06
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