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by ray sullivan on 25 June 2009 - 11:06
in the April issue of the National Magazine page 113 there was a statement by Sharon Bowen the ring steward at the" GSD Dog Club of Wales" open show 29/3/09. The main text of the statement dealt with the fact that the judge during the open Females class asked handlers if their charges held a Koerung . The Female heading the class was placed in second place due to the fact she hadnt aquired a Koerung the Female in second spot was promoted to 1st place as she holds a Koerung. I hear a lot of the exhibitors were not pleased with the judges procedure in this class . I was going to write to the magazine with a few thoughts on the matter but decided not to as in the past a lot of what ive written has been edited out. However after reading this months issue and noting the 2 replys by Georgie Sheffieldand Barbara Mackenzie i decided to put this on the message board .I echo all the questions posed by B.Mackenzie and i also wondered wht the Adult Males werent placed with a Koerung as criteria. Maybe theres something we dont know! The judge pointing out that in Europe he could confidently promote animals to High Honours because they held a Koerung which meant good hereditary health tests and qualifications begs the question if we used the same yard stick here what would happen to our top winning male "CH ICE" judge to handler "Koerung Qualification" handler to judge "No Sir but he failed 2 one on size and one on courage "just a thought" Over the years i have had the privilege of filming most shows from inside the ring i know the article dealt with the question of judges asking handlers about their charges but believe me a lot of handlers offer information to the judges with out being asked. Foreinstance:This one won the Junior Class under the S.V guyor my Sieger offspring is in the next class as yet unbeaten. The owners of one exhibit came into the ring after the animal won its class and let it be known that said exhibit was on 2ccs the animal became a champion that day . At a club show a few years ago the judge asked the steward if the top winning junior was in the class at this point she had placed the class .The steward told the judge the male was in 6th place after some frantic juggling of postions the big winner hit the front and was also awarded best male.I even have the guy who preaches rules to everyone else asking the steward for the details of a certain number in the class at a club show he was judging .Not a hanging offence but still against the rules.I also hear some folk are leaving their best animals at home to give their friends a better chance of a big win in lesser company. All the prementioned antics aer part of the reason the show game is dying.So get rid of all the judges that couldnt la straight in bed and judges report any of these guys who try to pass details of their charges to you wile you are assesing their animal and get the offenders out of the ring ...........R.A.Sullivan

by Superdog on 26 June 2009 - 15:06
Surely the question should be.
The judge accepted the post which is under KC rules.
He should thus judge by them.
What would happen if the animal had English Working Qualifications would it still have been down graded.?
The judge accepted the post which is under KC rules.
He should thus judge by them.
What would happen if the animal had English Working Qualifications would it still have been down graded.?

by Videx on 27 June 2009 - 23:06
Ray Sullivan writes above "So get rid of all the judges that couldn't lie straight in bed"
An interesting comment from a GSD Judge who is currently serving a Kennel Club ban for cheating whilst judging.
I also note that he mentions CH. ICE by name, yet he lacks the courage to put names to any of his many other allegations, he is obviously also a coward. Is it any surprise our Show scene is dying when such a discredited person in our breed fails to recognise his own serious offense against Kennel Club rules. Look how he dares make comment on others, only by innuendo though. I am very pleased that the Kennel Club removed him from our midst, as are many others. One other point, his dog Winston could never have gained any awards under the German system, simply because he he was an absolute windbag, this being the only reason Ray Sullivan was given the dog.
Ray Sullivan is certainly ONE person we do NOT need any comments from on our GSD Show Scene, and least of all any comments from on the integrity of our exhibitors or Judges.
An interesting comment from a GSD Judge who is currently serving a Kennel Club ban for cheating whilst judging.
I also note that he mentions CH. ICE by name, yet he lacks the courage to put names to any of his many other allegations, he is obviously also a coward. Is it any surprise our Show scene is dying when such a discredited person in our breed fails to recognise his own serious offense against Kennel Club rules. Look how he dares make comment on others, only by innuendo though. I am very pleased that the Kennel Club removed him from our midst, as are many others. One other point, his dog Winston could never have gained any awards under the German system, simply because he he was an absolute windbag, this being the only reason Ray Sullivan was given the dog.
Ray Sullivan is certainly ONE person we do NOT need any comments from on our GSD Show Scene, and least of all any comments from on the integrity of our exhibitors or Judges.

by missbeeb on 28 June 2009 - 09:06
Superdog, you are right!
Cheating and backscratching are amongst the BIG reasons our show scene is in the sorry state it is. Are the culprits really Shepherd lovers? They certainly do the breed no favours when they hand out honours to the "wrong" dogs!
Change will only come about if WE DO something. Don't keep quiet... it's high time a few cages were rattled.

by Videx on 28 June 2009 - 10:06
missbeeb: you wrote,
"Change will only come about if WE DO something. Don't keep quiet... it's high time a few cages were rattled"
I couldn't agree more, wouldn't it be refreshing if those who apparently lead our breed from their exalted elected positions, would come off the fence occasionally and contribute to the debates and the solutions. It appears they make strenuous efforts to place themselves apart from the serious issues affecting our breed here in the UK, in an apparent attempt to remain impartial and neutral and outside of the problems. They are leaders with NO substance, NO leadership, and certainly NO ideas. It is way beyond time for the majority within our breed to recognise that they actually contribute very little to our breeds future, in fact, by their inaction they contribute substantially to the apathy which is damaging any prospects of recovery for our breed. Pathetic leaders ensure apathy prevails.
"Change will only come about if WE DO something. Don't keep quiet... it's high time a few cages were rattled"
I couldn't agree more, wouldn't it be refreshing if those who apparently lead our breed from their exalted elected positions, would come off the fence occasionally and contribute to the debates and the solutions. It appears they make strenuous efforts to place themselves apart from the serious issues affecting our breed here in the UK, in an apparent attempt to remain impartial and neutral and outside of the problems. They are leaders with NO substance, NO leadership, and certainly NO ideas. It is way beyond time for the majority within our breed to recognise that they actually contribute very little to our breeds future, in fact, by their inaction they contribute substantially to the apathy which is damaging any prospects of recovery for our breed. Pathetic leaders ensure apathy prevails.

by missbeeb on 28 June 2009 - 11:06
If some of our "leaders" are pathetic, then it's time to vote in new ones. Are there people willing to stand though? It seems like it's hard enough to get regular committee members these days.
I don't have the answers to all our problems, but it's not too tough to hear what's being said and see what's being done.
If you know a judge is less than honest... DON'T have them to judge at your shows... if every Club promotes honest judges and judging, the entries WILL improve overall... there may be a few names missing, but that may not be such a loss!

by Videx on 28 June 2009 - 11:06
Pathetic leaders create the atmosphere where other people are reluctant to stand for committees. It is part of their long term survival technique. Pathetic I know, but can we expect anything different from them? NO!

by missbeeb on 28 June 2009 - 12:06
Mmmm... I agree. However, grassroots... it should be cleaned up, judging that is! Too many people are too worried about their popularity or about not being "in"... it's not good for our breed... if you don't want to make waves, at least support those that will. I've now lost count of the people who agree with what's in the BC mag... but the favourite follow up is, "don't quote me" or I can't get involved... get a backbone!
How can anything change if you do nothing?
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