What Age for Serious Obedience Training - Page 1

.

How old is this puppy?  If he's nursing his teddy bear, you are probably still talking about his age in weeks rather than months. I don't let puppies draw blood from me but I've been able to correct mine by moving a toy or rag in front of them. Moving is the key. They like movement. You can't just show them the toy, it has to be moving because what you are encouraging is prey drive and prey runs away.

A hard correction for a young puppy biting would be removing his teeth from you then clamping his mouth shut with your hand (not hard, but just hard enough to keep his mouth shut) and looking at him and saying "no bite!"  You might give his muzzle a little shake (by little I mean an inch or two sideways NEVER up and down). Most of them come back for more, so you may have to do this more than once.

If you are raising a puppy for schutzhund, you should use the first method of diverting his attention with a moving toy or rag to discourage biting. After all, biting is a large part of protection work and if you discourage it too much now, you could inhibit him and have to work extra hard to get him to bite when you want him to.

What do you mean by "serious" obedience training? 

.

"My puppy's biting is getting worse, and he is now starting to growl while biting."
Hmm. Your knowledge about puppy behavior is not good and you don't know what you are doing. My words are not meant to be harsh, preachy or to put you down, I am trying to offer advice and help.

You need help or it will get worse and the pup will be the victim of his own puppy antics. You have to build a foundation with him first. Firstly, how old is this pup? the growling is somewhat of a concern, from what you are describing.

"These are hard bites that are not only drawing blood, but also leaving bruises." _ that is normal, pups have baracuda teeth and if left unchecked they can be quite unpleasant. However, even if it's "normal", it does not mean it should be tolerated. You are a higher IQ being than him/her, you have to figure out a way to satisfy his normal instincts without any serious harm to you.
 
"I have tried doing the redirecting over and over, but he isn't interested in the toy when he is clamped onto my arm or leg."

You are doing it wrong. You do not "redirect" after he is clamped on your leg, by then game over for you. At that time, the leg is a whole lot more fun tha some (in his eyes) stupid piece of plastic you are dangling in front of him while you are sucking your breatch enduring pain. You play with him and "redirect" before it gets to the leg.

"He has numerous chew toys, both kong and kong-type, plush toys, beef sticks bones, etc. I have also tried the ice cubes as suggested. I know this is a "game" for him, but enough is enough."

You need a ball on a string and you need to play with him. He sees you RIGHT NOW, as it is as a play OBJECT. What you need to do is play WITH HIM "against" the toy. Right now, YOU are the toy.

"Some posters have stated that they do a Hard Correction for agressive behavior -- what is meant by a Hard Correction?"

Nothing is meant as a hard correction, do not use hard corrections on a small puppy. To make your life easier, you have to use your inteligence, cunning and strategy. You have to wear the pup out by playing WITH HIM agaist the toy - the common "enemy" that the pack is going to destroy together over and over and over and over. Tired puppy is a good puppy, remember that. Realy tired puppy is a great puppy, wil be asier to calm, bond easier, easier to pet, stroke handle, clip nails etc...

"At what age will he be ready for Serious obedience training?"

Generaly, IF THE FOUNDATION is built - 6 months. It's a generic question with no good answer.
 
"I have noticed that he also thinks that he is "nursing" when playing with his favorite teddy bear. He clamps onto the bears face and gets very quiet, stays very still except for his front legs and paws moving in a motion as he would do when nursing."

Very nteresting... Hmm. How old is this pup? When did you get him? At what age was he removed from the litter? Hm...

"When I manage to get his teeth out of my arms/legs, he comes back even stronger with the growling. "

Of course, that is typical. Again, DO NOT let it get to that point. Your redirection starts before he even reaches the leg. I suggest a small ball on a string, or a jute rag or many others pup proof irresistible toys. he is too young for kongs, your teddy bear and other plush toys will become a shapeless mass of goo very soon. You need working dog puppy toys from places like Hallmark K9 or Elite K9, not stuff from Petco, that will be destroyed withim weeks of not days very soon as the pup gets a bit bigger in a month or so.

You need to wear him out. Lo

You need to wear him out. Lots of play with tug of war with toys, lots of walks, lots of trowing the toys int he backyard, lots of hide and seek, lots of come, sit, down, go get it, good buy etc...

Your pup has prey drive since he's a little predator. Adi is right, wear your puppy out with pro-active play. Puppies explore with their mouths, they chew everything in sight. He's a baby at 13 weeks, he needs to be entertained and worn out so play with him. Don't worry about over encouraging prey drive in a 13 weeks old pup. He needs to chase a ball or rag on a string or a tug and pounce on it and bite it. It's what little puppies do. They are genetically programmed to do these things.

The method I described for stopping the puppy biting you is the same one that adult dogs use with that age of puppy when a pup bites the adult.

Since he's not a schutzhund puppy, he should be learning to sit, lie down and stay right now. Sit and down are very easy to teach a young pup by shaping his movement with a treat held in your hand. Stay may take a while since it seems to be age dependent. A 13 week old might stay put for a second or two and that's good enough to start with.

You can take him to a puppy class as soon as he's had all his shots. That would be at about 16 weeks. Wait a week or so after he has his shots, since it takes a while for the immunity to build. Most training facilities want to see proof your pup has his shots before enrolling in a class anyway.

Serious obedience training, like heeling, staying while you walk away or walk around him, down out of motion and so on take some maturity on the part of the dog. He'll be somewhere between 6 to 9 months old before you will be able to teach him that kind of obedience. It depends on the dog. Some dogs don't quite get it until they are even older. Some get it younger. Males are often slower to mature than females.

Maggie,

What do you want him for?  You said definately not Schutzhund, but did not elaberate as to exactly what it is you want him for.  What are his bloodlines (please feel free to send pm if you like) and how old was he when you brought him home.  I hate to say too much without more of the picture as I like those little biters and have just learned to endure the pain.  Some will disagree with this but until I know more about the pup, what you want him for, who is around him besides you etc. I would not tell you how to correct this issue.  There are means of correcting that do not involve "hard corrections".  As mentioned above, this is not good advice for a pup.  I am always thinking "working dog" as I respond, so you need to fill in the gaps.

Glad to hear you say serious as, not in pet smart.  Puppy ob classes start at about 3-4 months if I remember right, but  check with others.  You should be doing some obedience by now in fun ways, every day should be a fun learning experience for this little gator.  Life should be a ball for him and he should see you as someone that is in his corner.  You should be his god,  a god that interacts with him.  Are you doing alot of socializing with him, conditioning etc.?  Work in a little obedience when he is out doing fun stuff.  When he sits, he gets to get out of the car and go play at the park, this type of thing.  You can teach that little mind much, and I am a firm believer that food rewards are NOT the best way to train in the long run.  Great for emmediate results, but IMO not  the best way.

I know many will disagree with this, but I never use food as a reward for puppy obedience.  I want the pup to bond to me, not food.  I do not want the pup responding to food, but to me.  I believe in having fun with the pup, bonding, playing and in the middle of it all working in obedience as apart of life.  I may use food for some particular problem, but not as a rule.  Get creative.