Roach back, normal, really? - Page 1

What is the idea, really, of having a roach back in GSD? I see so many different structures depending on whether they are from German Showlines, working lines, and the worst being American show lines. The same idea applies to extreme rear angulation and over size Shepherds.

To me, GSD is a top working dog and I like to have a dog that is fast, agile aand that is able to do police work, like jumping high fences when running after the bad guy.

How can you expect a 120 pounds shepherd with extreme rear angulation to do this work? Helloooo!, This is ridiculous.

I train my GSD in French Ring and see many Belgian Malinois in this work, with their straight back, that are just amazing.
Also, i’ve heard so many comments from normal people asking why do shepherds have to look like this nowadays...

Surprised to hear you say the worst for roach backs are American show lines.  I go to quite a few AKC dog shows to watch and also show in obedience and I don't see American GSD with roachbacks.  At what dog shows have you seen these?  Same with over size - not really seeing those at AKC shows, either.  Still see back ends I don't like, but compared to the German dogs, I'm not seeing it here.  Also, NO WAY have I EVER seen a 120 pound GSD in an AKC show.  Ever.

Please say where in current "American show lines" you've seen 120-lb. GSD.  And the roach backs.  Where?  Over-angulated, I'd agree there are still quite a few and yes, I agree that it's incorrect.  But the other stuff?  I think you're just jumping on the Bashwagon.

mimi, it sounds like you're bringing up a lot of issues all at once.  As far as 120lb dogs, I haven't ever seen one that big doing real work and it seems that the people who think they should be this big aren't working their dogs so I guess it doesn't matter to them (and most dogs I see advertized like their size/weight is a good thing are really just overweight and not in fit condition, some of them aren't really that big/tall).

I haven't seen American lines with a roach problem, only German.  I've read that *some* roach is supposedly better for jumping and such b/c of impact.  Like arches in doorways and building structure are supposed to be stronger.  But there is definitely such a thing as too much roach, IMO.

Roached backs as a structural abnormality are a problem. 120+pounds is not normal for any shepherd and I don't know any serious W. Ger. showlines breeder who prefers males much over 85 pounds.

Learn some physics and physiology. Nature does not produce REAL straight lines. The human back is not completely straight either. A dog's back is supposed to FLEX to some degree. It is not supposed to stay straight as a rod or else it would be one long bone and not made up of numerous vertebrae.

A curved back with a real problem (roached back is a clinical term not a normal descriptor) will look abnormal while the dog is standing in a natural position (not squished together in an exxagerated stack) and in motion.

You can argue about esthetics until the cows come home. One person's opinion against another's.

The proof is in the pudding. Amyway, I can't believe people are still chewing on this rag anyway. Don't you have ANYTHING better to do? And I have nothing against the Belgian Maliniois. It's just a different dog. You are wasting your time pushing your propaganda on the GSD crowd. If you like your dog so much, you don't need to butt heads with everyone else. Isn't there a Malinois section?

It's probably best not to judge the best of anything by the worst of the same. The world is full of crap. Why do you want to sit there and eat more of it?

But it's a FREE COUNTRY so bon appetit!

I agree that the roach back is not the most desirable feature. I fail to see many dogsover the years that are roached when they stand, there are a few. I have a male that is slightly roached with a long croup and never had him fail to work like a DOG. Isn't that what it's all about anyway?

As far as malinois and the straight back, that's all great but I had a friend that is a malinut, and he told me that he had the only remaining ScH III dog from a nine pup litter (all were titled) that was still alive. The other 8 had broken their necks doing bitework.

So as the adage goes, each to his own without finding fault in others. Hell, I have a hard enough time working my own faults out. I could care less what anyone else likes or thinks of me or my dogs.

I named him Ouch!!Is this just a bad stack,?  He has nice dogs in his background, is this something that these
kind of bloodlines start out with & then out grow??

Have to question your knowledege of Am. S/L. You don't have to do much research to find examples of long, saggy backs in Am. S/L. But a roach, it ain't so. If you bother to attend a AKC specialty show you will see that weak backs are very prevalent. 

And if you take the time to look at the top winning S/L dogs from Germany, there are not a lot of roach there any longer. Very strong backs over all.

Agree with you 100% concerning the over size and the usless "erxtreme rear angles".

JMHO,
Rik

Thank you Mirasmom, your picture is a good example of what I am talking about.

I know I am bringing up a lot of issues at once ;) Amercian show lines don't have the roach back but they are very often too angulated.

My point is just food for thought. I am curious about other people's opinion.

MY NEW GF HAS KIND OF A ROACH BACK. ITS KINDA SEXY AND SHE IS REALLY REALLY STRONG.