Dog does not like STAND command - Page 1

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by beetree on 21 May 2009 - 00:05

This was brought up by another poster, but I have the same issue. I show him the stand command and he wants to sit or lay down. He's the first dog I"ve had to encounter this, and I do believe he is quite smart, but it seems to be not his nature. Is this a known quirk in certain lines, I wonder? 


Uber Land

by Uber Land on 21 May 2009 - 00:05

does he "understand" the command?  I found holding a leash under their belly helps,  they go to sit,  raise the leash up under them and repeat the command.  eventually they will get it.

by Adi Ibrahimbegovic on 21 May 2009 - 00:05

How did  you teach him the stand command, or did  you teach it yet, so you are 100% sure he understand what is being asked of him?

by beetree on 21 May 2009 - 01:05

I usually use a training treat and a forward motion and say STAND. My other dogs would seem to "go with the forward motion and get it. He immediately sits or lays down, so I know he knows I want something, but he doesn't seem to want to do this. I have then gently lifted him to a stand, just to praise him in the end. HELP!

VonIsengard

by VonIsengard on 21 May 2009 - 02:05

Nothing warms a dog up to a stand like a good tummy rub or chest scratch while you are teaching it, and tell him the whole time, "goooooood boy, good stand", then ALWAYS heel him forward excitedly, directly from the stand. Break him immediately with a toy. Do NOT sit him or down him from the stand at this point in his training.

I will use a leash under the belly when nothing else works. A hand under the tummy will help you control a nice "kick back" stand, as opposed to your dog walking forward and actually leaving heel position. No quirk in lines here, he just doesn't understand yet. Teach, teach, teach, and when you think he's got it, teach some more.

Ryanhaus

by Ryanhaus on 21 May 2009 - 10:05

I used the leash under the belly and hold the dog up & walk all the way around then give him the treat,
that worked for my yellow lab, we went over & over it right before the show & she got her first leg towards
her CD, she had already learned the stand comand, but of course when I was doing a run through right
before the weekend show, she surprised me by sitting down when I would walk behind her,

try the leash under the belly, it worked great for us!

CrzyGSD

by CrzyGSD on 21 May 2009 - 11:05

The dog doesn't understand what you want of him yet. Just because the dog prior picked it up quickly and with the food method doesn't mean this dog will. Every dog is different. What makes a good trainer is using what method works for that paticular dog.
Right now i have a training client who is showing her tervourn (not sure of spelling). The dog keeps moving when a judge comes to check it. So we are teaching the stand. I started it with food. One session the dog associated the word with the command. He would do the stand out of motion but then sometimes he would still move when someone approached him so i would reach under him and pull down on the hair right infront of his &*$& LOL 
This cause an oppositionreflex. You pull down the dog pulls up. This was the second session. At the end of the second session the dog stood when told from a heel. The woman left the dog in a stand, walked a circle around the dog and was very happy.
Now with my older dog i tried food and he would go into the position but would stop right away from the heel. I tried the hand in the face and that didn't work. So i had to use the leash around the belly and that was a battle but i won.
Don't get discouraged if your dog starts to blow the sit when learning the stand. It happens.

       Mark
www.ultimatekanine.com
www.kampkanine.com

VonIsengard

by VonIsengard on 22 May 2009 - 14:05

Using the means of anything unpleasant to the dog, whether it is a "hair pull", leash under the belly, training collar, etc., is correction, and correction is used for proofing, not for teaching. If the dog has yet to exhibit the behavior you want, they do not know it yet, and you are not done teaching. My beginner classes entail a stand for exam and my intermediate classes have a moving stand for exam.  What I have people use to teach it is good old fashioned patience.

Liesjers

by Liesjers on 22 May 2009 - 15:05

I've had a few trainers tell me not to train the stand by holding the treat forward (especially my conformation trainer, she wanted the dog to just stand up, not have to actually step forward to stand up).  I've seen people take the treat in their hand and actually move it down into the dog's chest and somehow this pops the butt up.  Our conformation instructor had us tap the dog's belly with a foot and as he stood, to mark and praise, give the treat (NOT kick or push the dog...if your dog doesn't pop up with a gentle tap then use another method).  Still other trainers have said to hold the treat in your fist and move your hand to the left and back rather than out in front of the dog.  I am teaching my puppy using the belly tap and I taught my female by first training her to tap my palm (facing down) with her nose, then I used this to ask for the nose touch from a sit so she had to stand up.  Then I called that "stand" and use the hand signal of a flat palm above her nose.

by Adi Ibrahimbegovic on 25 May 2009 - 03:05

Well...

"He immediately sits or lays down, so I know he knows I want something, but he doesn't seem to want to do this."

Is the dog in drive? Is he looking at you expectantly and focused?

If yes, that is a typical behaviour of an intelligent dog trying to figure out what you want from him.

He knows you want something of him, but does not understand you want him to do a simple stand, whihc means, stay in that position, do not sit, or lay down and do not move until released. An intelligent dog will offer his "bag of tricks", meaning what he larned and knows up to this point, hoping he will strike a jackpot and one of those behaviors is what you are after.

My dog would pester me with his stupid ball to throw it for him. He figured out (by watching my wife... ha ha), if they plead their case with me long enough (meaning nag me over and over and over), after a while I will relent and do it. I will mutter "alright, dammit" and go get your ball, I swear to god the damn dog got a grin with that ball in his mouth.

The "coluntary behaviors and execution of the commands is good and shows a promising dog, but of course, that is not what you want.

To do a simple stand or anything else you are teaching him, do it in your backyard, no distractions. Now, use good food bits (such as sausage, or cheese or hot dog dime size pices) or his favorite toy. Say, the dog is laying down or sitting. If not, do what he wants, offer sit. You are immediately in front of him.

He sits. Offer your clenched fist with the food bit or a toy right in front of his face, gently. Say "stand" or whatever word or command you are using. Move backward a bit, so you are kind of within a reach, but oh so elusive. Say it one time. it is dog's natural response to get closer to it. The dog will muzzle a bit forward. Once he is in standing position, unclench your fist and offer the food  or toy immediately and praise.

Do that exact sequence 5 or 6 more times and each time the dog has to be coaxed in the position you desire. Reward immediately. If he sits, physicaly (genty) lift his backhind and move him into a stand, say good stand etc.. whatever praise you use and reward immediately. Do that 2 or 3 times a day, keep it very short, a minute or 2 enough to do a few repetitions and end on a high note every time.

it's better to do it and keep it short and sweet multiple times during the day then to do one long, monster session (to make up for lost time when you didn't feel like it) where the dog wil lose interest after a while, or get jittery etc... and it all goes downhill.

Remember old Latin proverb, Repetitio est mater studiorum, meaning - repetition is the mother or learning. All dog training is about is consistency, patience and doing it over and over and over without making it like school forced, but keeping it fun. It's not much different then being a good teacher to himan kids.

As for keeping it fun. it is a whgole lot more fun to, for example, take the kids on a road trip to a NASA space center with space simulators, replica of the real space shuttle, real astronaut uniforms, rides, gravity machines, real rock from the moon that could be touched, IMAX theater, space labs, real astronaut helmets etc... in Houston, then to drone about space exploration in a classroom or read it from a boring book setting where the kids will be bored out of their minds.

It's easier and better and more invigorating to do it "like fun" than to yank and crank and yell and demand this and that where the dog is in "school".

I hope that helps. All this doesn't apply to "stand" but to anything. Your imagination is a ley to your dog learning.

Remember Max Von Steph, the cool G





 


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