Help! Boundary Training Needed - Page 1

Does anyone have any tips for training dogs to respect geographical boundaries? 

I thought it was cool when my male bolted out the door to run the perimeter of the acreage we live on, but now his "perimeter" includes the road at the end of the driveway and neighbours properties - and he's barking at them on their own properties.  He returns within 30 seconds - but not before he has scared the neighbours and their children by running up and barking. 

I want to train him to know where our property ends and be able to trust him not to cross it, as it is too far from the house to the end of the driveway for us to be able to correct him before he returns to the property - and I don't want to correct him after he returns. 

(I was actually contemplating buying a shock collar and having one person let him out while the other waits down the road so he can be corrected in the act - but I thought there might be a better way.)

We have tried walking him to the end of the driveway and saying "no" by pointing to the road, but it hasn't worked - so I'm missing something. 

Also, has anyone purchased Don Sullivan's program - is it any good?  what is with the "correction collar"? 

Instead of no, it might have to be a correction from  a prong/pinch collar, that's what I had to use.
Depends on what you want to do.
You can use the e collar to do correction if he reaches the road.
I heard Sullivan's methods are not good. But, that was hear say.
Some one will be able to help on here.
No really doesn't have much meaning for dogs especially when over used.

Survey flags, a training collar, and a long line.  Honestly, all I have ever had to do was hit my dogs with a firm verbal "no" when they are about to leave the yard or driveway, but they have extensive off leash training. Ecollar for me is always a last resort. Your dog should go out on a long line (30' is good) for a good long time, it should be at least several consecutive weeks where he does not attempt to leave before taking it off in the yard. 

hmmmm....  I don't quite understand.  With a 30 feet line. would I stand 25 or 30 feet up the driveway, and then wait until he tries to leave the driveway and then correct him with a "no"?  That might take a very long time to train as  the house is so far from the end of the driveway - it can't even be seen from the driveway.  When he takes off, I yell "no".    I've seen him hesitate - calling him, he often turns around to look at me at the top (house end) of the driveway, and then make the conscious decision to disobey the "no" and  "come" and run the other way. 

So I guess I really have two problems - he's consciously disobeying a  "no" and "come" command - that's seemingly a respect issue - so I can't intellectually see how he would obey a historical "no" command when I can't even be seen at the other end of the driveway and he's disobeying a current "no" command.

Oddly, on and off leash, he usually fairly attentive to commands, but this is wacky behavior for him. 

Actually, the behaviour seems almost ocd.  It's like he feels he "must" run.  As I said, I didn't correct him before - I thought the "running the perimeter"  was kind of natural for a shepherd - but it hs evolved into a "run down the driveway, bark at the neighbours and run back" - all within a minute - kind of behaviour. 

That's why I was contemplating a aversion methid - but hoping to find something less punitive, if possible. 

KCzaja:

when you say a "training collar, flags, and a long line" - I have no idea what you mean by training collar - and I assume by flags you mean the kind that they have for underground fencing? 

The tools are one thing - but I wouldn't know what to do with them when I had them.  That's why I was kind of thinking a video ight help. 

Mathew:

How would you use the pinch collar? 

When I was growing up, most of my dad's brothers and sisters were farmers. Most of them had a farm dog that was allowed the freedom of the property, to help protect it.

As I grew up, I began to realize this was not always such a good thing. So many of these dogs eventually got into trouble: hit by cars, shot or euthanized for running livestock, annoying the neighbours by looking for a little action with their pedigree bitches, etc.

I really don't think this is a responsible way to keep a dog. I think your best bet is an invisible fence and e-collar. You can try other methods, but will need to CONSTANTLY reinforce them. In my previous home, I used invisible fencing and e-collars to keep my dogs out of my perennial gardens. (The yard also had a picket fence around it.) Of course, during the winter when the ground was frozen and snow-covered, I didn't need the collars, so I'd have to re-train the dogs every spring. They'd also learn pretty quick if the batteries ran low, and go back to digging holes in the garden again.

If I were you, I wouldn't risk my dog's life by allowing it to run free on my property, unless under my direct supervision. Even then, one of my dogs darn near died when she sneaked away from our property while my husband was outside gardening, and got into something rotten or poisonous.

Ain't worth the risk, IMO!

I would put a pinch collar on the dog with a long line, walk the perimeter of property often. The flags are simply an added visual for the dog. When the dog attempts to pass them, a pop back with a line with a calm "no" will stop the dog. It should also cause the dog to turn back toward you. As soon and the dog looks/moves back to you, lavish the dog with praise. Yes, an ecollar would work, but imo it's lazy. And yes, it is time consuming, training a dog usually is. Everyone wants a quick fix, so they go straight to the e-collar, which again, imo, should be a last resort.  And you are right, ignoring a "no" and a "come" is a respect issue.

Trained or not, I agree with sunsilver, without a real fence my dogs are never loose outside unless I'm supervising.

arrrrggghhh!  dammitall!  you're telling me what I thought was going to be the case, but I didn't want to hear it.  Fencing is a huge problem, since the entire property is old growth trees and bush.  There are literally no open spaces, so we.re going to have to string chicken wire or something from tree to tree. 

Re:  invisible fencing,

I used to have invisible fencing when I lived in the city.  Both my Fox terrier and my standard poodle thought nothing of running through it.  (The poodle was so brilliant, she learned that if she walked on her hind liegs for a few steps the shock would not occur, so she ran to the boundary, reared up and half walked, half leaped through it - then ran when she got to the other side.)   I doubt the shepherds are as smart as the poodle, but I can't say I trust that invisible fence system for them either, sigh...

 

Boundary training? A fence comes to mind.

Why leave a dog to run at large and take the chance of him getting shot or picked up by the dog police? Or get hit by a car because he thinks the road is part of his space?

If you can make sure the dog has a solid recall, and by that I mean you can call him off squirrels and cats and joggers then you can have him outside while you're there to keep him safe. Leaving a dog to his own devices and expecting him to respect YOUR boundary is asking for trouble.

I've managed t teach all my dogs that they cannot cross through the gate, not sure why they comply but they do. I would never EVER think of working in the unfenced part of my land and have a dog loose with me. They're dogs. Things other than 'boundaries' are fascinating. The bitch next door. The damn cat. The kids on tricycles. The neighbour's pool. I am not going to set my dogs up for failure and possible death.

Our boundries are either fenced or the dog is on a lead.