Not bringing back the dumbell - Page 1

Well, this is going to be hard to ask.
But, fact is I need help.
What do I practice on when a dog's attitude is great going out and getting the dumbell. But, blows pass
me when bringing it back.
I know it is a matter of her not knowing what to do when returning to me.
I have tried the front sit and putting it in her mouth.
But, this only leaves her in advoidance. 
I did get some results in playing and bumping lightly on side of dumbell. I let her carry it with line held high so she doesn't
drop it, and have ran in circles. Which has helped her drive and desire to carry it longer. She also likes it. But, on the other hand only teaches her to do that.
Should I continue that?
She is not a clicker dog and it does not interest her, sorry.
I also been two ball playing with her which has been very good. I do that before we get to the dumbell.
Her attitude is great playing games and her retrieve is very good except blowing pass me.
What in this situation of a dog who likes the keep away game, has anyone gained knowledge from when getting
the dog to come front and center.
I really need some good advise.
I don't want to do the force because I don't like it, the dog would not like it, and I think it would sour her for good.
I know you have seen the question before but every dog is so different.  And I have been working hard this year on it.
Thank you.

Put everything away, toys, balls ect. Dumbell will be the only thing for enjoyment and play with you. Put a line on her for retrieving, so she cant run past you. You could screw some rope at the sites as handles and play a bit of tug to teach her possession. Just a few ideas.

I had ther same problem. I used a little unorthodox method that might help. I used raw meat or her favorite snack. I made her come to me as a reward. Eventually I changed the treats to a toy. After that I worked on the timing of the reward and made it longer until we completed our task. But every dog is different. She had so much energy to burn. Now she gets the dumbbell and brings it to me with no problem.


LOL-I have a male that brings back every and anything-a turtle the other day. No harm to either animal but it really surprised me.

DiAngelo

I have long line on today ran out to small jump, jumping gets her more into the game. Always use a long line for it.
It is short jump. But, no matter how fast I try can not reel in line fast enough.
Want to use someone maybe going out with her and coming back with her.
What do you think of that.?
If she stops she spits the dumbell out. Then she looks at it and me like go ahead pick it up it is still mine.
She will try to bite my leg some if she can. So, if she spits it out on me I tease her by kicking it away from her.
I then pick it up and tease her some, but then throw it again.
So maybe I keep working at it.?
Thought maybe someone out there at similar problem.
I think she knows I have food the  pack is  on my side with goodies.
If she does what I want she will get the prize of course. And it is yummy stuff. Real meat. She just does not understand the concept of bringing it to me, or trying to play with me and it.
 
I just don't know if there is some real fun stuff to make the dog grab and hold out there. If I should do at home the hold and
wait for meat still. Something has to click here soon.  I was making her hold, not always the dumbell, I have a gummy
bar, it looks like a hose, but it is very much like a big eraser in the shape of a hose, it feels not so hard and can not bang
on her teeth. Our Casa likes it alot.    I thought that would be good to use since it doesn't look like her dumbell and she could learn to hold an object and wait for release. But, it is kind of force work. And that's when the avoidance came in. I am so not knowing what to do.

I see what you mean diangelo.
Maybe I just work on that instead of two ball game.
Kind of like the recall but use food and work on coming back, umm, maybe that I will try.
I do some quick obedience and the recall.
Then the send out. She is doing good in all of that then the retrieve is last as it is the hardest to teach.
But, maybe just sessions of coming for food first.
Then try to add a toy in next week session.
I will try some of that tonight.
thanks. 
She would do just about anything for food, hungry or not.
Chow hound.
But, I just can't get it to her , her getting about coming with objects, kong, ball, dumbell, even if pack of food is on side.
It is all about the keeping it away from her thing. I would like to yell at her believe me, but I won't. LOL, that is not
going to help at all.
So, at this point I am reaching out some more for help.

Mathew you may want to work on her fronts with the dumbbell seperate from the retrieve part. Work on her holding with no pressure  just holding in front with lots of praise and then slowly  take a step or two back and call her in /pop with line, (be prepared to reward as instantly as you can) and then do it again and again till it is great and she comes fast before throwing it.

Is she just avoiding it or is she shutting down? Avoidance and shutting down are different.

Also work a lot of fronts with out the dumbbell. That has to be a great place for her to be. I think some of us get in the habit of working the basic and the recall with the finish and do not spend enough on frontal position training.

She does the retrieve so leave that out for now. Stand in the start position and put your ball under your chin. Pivot in front of her and position yourself perfect. Say HERE and lift your chin so she gets the ball. Play a little. Out her and repeat. She must learn that the front position in sacred ground for her where only great things happen. When she is holding in front for about 15 seconds back up a few steps and say here again. When she positions herself in front lift your chin and she wins. Repetition and her winning will build the confidence that this is a must be place for her. When YOU are confident move to the dumbbell from the start position again and repeat all with the dumbbell. Remember to use here as your marker as it is part of return speed with the dumbbell. If she comes in crooked move before her ass hits the ground so she can not win until good positioning is achieved. I will use here at least half the time with an older sch3 dog to keep speed.

realcold that is Excellent idea.
She is nutty over a tennis ball, I never thought of that idea, she will love it. But, she will take it and run that will
encourage the keep away, what is best thing to do to avoid it after she wins tennis ball??? (Have one in pocket to pull out?)

. She did stop in BH on recall then I had to recommand for her to come in
for finish, so something did happen.  I can use that instead of food to help her. What it is someone told me after
the front finish to use correction to get her into the heel, and she didn't forget it, embarrassing in trial day!!
So, people not always right. Lessons to learn each time problem comes up.
For months I have just been doing frontal and no heeling command, that way she will look to it as more rewarding.
But, she never forgets, that is still worry. Yesterday she did very well, we did some frontal and lots of frontal feeding.
I leaned into her and back and when I leaned back she came in stronger. That is good.

sch-junkie
I said avoidance- for her that is turning head, looking away, looking worried, backing up or moving side to side , and spitting object out of mouth.

What is shutting down and avoidance difference?
If I work on moving a couple steps back and popping. What kind of collar, if it is the pinch, and she gets overwhelmed
or confused she will not be forgiving.
She will not cooperate with me at all.
If I making a pop when moving back she will most likely drop it.
I will do some experimenting today.
Play around with some ideas. Something has to work for her.    She likes it when she comes front and center I feed her
then reach down praise her and rub her chest. She gets very pumped. Maybe I will use the gummy bar and
reward her same way. I don't do it more than 3x's, so I don't worry her or get boring.    And I will try using a tennis ball for reward if she doesn't drop the gummie bar.

Hi Mathew:

I have been experiencing a similar problem.  Molly will run and get the dumbell and then would run around with it in her mouth - not wanting to bring it back in front.  When I tried the long line and corrected - she would drop it.  We had a similar problem in the recall, but she knows the front position for that as well as going from heel to front.  She just does not like doing this with something in her mouth.  When I tried a ball reward she would drop the dumbell and just want the ball, so I switched to food.  The food has worked, although she is still not sitting in front as close as I would like and sometimes does not hold the dumbell long enough, so I am now working on the hold part seperate.  I am hoping that it all comes together soon as we have been working very hard on the retrieves for the past 4 months.  Slow progress, but finally am seeing some improvement. 

Cheryl

Matthews, how old is your dog? My ddr girl displayed alot of this avoidance behavior after a correction and I had to be so very careful with everything I was doing. Turns out she had to grow up a bit more and mature. Took a 3 month break from basical everything. Just recently started up again and to my pleasing she is going stronger then ever, and even taken corrections very well (mainly obedience, in protection she is not as far aong yet to correct anything).