What can you predict from linebreeding results? - Page 1

When looking at linebreeding results, how much information can you predict about the litter's strengths and weaknesses?   If you were looking at puppies, what would you expect from a litter that looked like: 


Linebreeding - 5 generations
5,5 - 5........................................... in SG Blacky vom Gleisdreieck

4,4 - 4........................................... in SG Lord vom Gleisdreieck

5,5 - 5........................................... in V Jeff vom Flämings-Sand


Heather

 I personally believe you can predict nothing, despite the fact that all too many people tout that their dog is linebred. By the 4th and 5th generation, many characteristics and traits are well established or well hidden. The most important predictor of a temperament and traits in a pup will come from a close, unbiased and knowledgeable view of the sire and dam. Then looking at the immediate ancestors, IF SOMEONE REALLY KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT or has again close, unbiased and personal knowledge of a given dog, may provide some information. In the end, one must be an astute observer of the pups themselves. Far too many people think you can accurately predict what a pup is going to be at 8 weeks old. I think that is bunk. Having kept almost all the few pups from the very rare litter I had, I can tell you that pups are often going to change dramatically as they grow up. Of course, a lot of this also depends on the environment in which they grow up.

Well Tessie has those 3 in her pedigree,


So I guess you'll get a dog that can sit up & beg!




SORRY, I couldn't resist!!
Lord is Tessie's great-great-grand-sire!
I love the temperament my dogs have, and a few have that combo, but not so close up, I agree with Hodie, you need to meet mom & dad, and see all the pups interacting with each other, some mother dogs won't let you near her pups when you visit.
I myself don't like to see a pedigree with that many commas, it may bring out genetic diseases, BUT that is only my personal opinion, I'm most likely very mistaken, but that's something I look at in a pedigree.........

I would love to see those pups if it's a real breeding, as far as I know, those are healthy strong dogs to have in a pedigree.

Well...I should think one can see SOMETHING out of linebreeding, or else how do you get visibly different bloodlines? Seems like I can identify dogs out of Fero lines, and that was back a ways... 

I do realize you need to take into consideration a lot more factors like those mentioned, and that some are more important . 

But just for questions' sake, I am trying to understand linebreeding better, and especially as it relates to lines that I seem to like and be drawn to.  How much can you tell, what problems might be suspected, what strengths, that sort of thing.  How do those lines compare in general to other lines.  What are the limitations of the information you can draw from it.  Which traits are particularly strong in a line.   

Oh, and it's not a real breeding, just a hypothetical one.  No real puppies to see :o) 

Heather

I would challenge someone who thought they could consistently identify dogs out of Fero lines or even other bloodlines. Sure, DDR dogs present, in general, some physical traits that vary from say West German bloodlines, or Czech. But otherwise how do you propose to identify the bloodlines simply by looking at a dog or its face?  By structure? Temperament? Color and markings? 

I would also suggest that most of what gets passed on in forums like this is baloney when it comes to what a given dog was like generations ago. It is the stuff of legends and everyone knows or should know how legends arise and mutate over time. Most people don't even know what is actually written by authoritative sources. But if someone writes it here, or elsewhere on the internet, it must be true.  Very,very few posters on this forum have a real knowledge of old bloodlines or the characteristics of long dead dogs. Those that do have often been involved in breeding certain bloodlines for many, many years. But even then, there is always the reality of kennel blindiness. Those that really do know about certain bloodlines or long gone dogs sadly do not post here anymore or often because there is so much crap posted here.

IF one is into line breeding, then as a minimum, one should really know what characteristics and traits are exhibited by dogs a generation or two back. But that too is impossible unless one has actually seen the dogs, or otherwise has a trusted source for such information. The limitations are much easier to deal with in that the best information and generalizations are those that which come from direct observation, not theoretical ideals or hearsay.

Hi, I can't tell you for sure what that line breeding will produce but owned a previous GSD that was 2, 4 off Lord.
She was a amazing dog, one of those great dogs you might get once in a life time. She was a very large boned dog about 85-90lbs working weight. But she could work all day without tiring & easy jump over 6ft high fences / walls.
She was able to do it all; my SAR partner for over 7 years, demo dog, therapy dog, protection dog, for fun we tried agility, weight pulling, carting, & herding. She had the most amazing temperament with no fear & ready to take on the world or any task I asked of her. She was my fearless protector from a stalker that never stop protecting even when she was being hurt. Yet she use to find baby birds / rabbits in the yard & wouldn't come back inside the house so she could care for them.
She was great with kids, elderly, people with special needs, & various dogs I brought in to foster.
She learned to climb ladders on her own, scale across anything no matter the height & enjoyed it.
But she was a handful to own as a pet, she never wanted to stop working. Also had to do a lot of behavior modification with her around other dogs so she could work within the SAR group & demo work. She wasn't dog aggressive, but had an effect on other dogs just walking into a room, they would all become submissive. She was very challenged within the SAR group, OB classes, & at the dog park ever since she was a puppy. Where ever she went she owned the place & acted like she was Queen of it all.  Which of course could be distracting when you need all dogs to be working together. Then she had to learn to tolerate other dogs near her toys, since was very possessive of her toys or anything that was mine. The poor dog that made the mistake of picking it up before her, or someone making the mistake of picking up my pocket book!
I had to carrier her very favorite toy around as a reward for sharing her other toys. She was a lot of work & yet so much joy too. She had good health except ear infections from allergies. She lived to almost 14 years old. She was admired & loved by all that worked with her / knew her. Her drives were more balanced than what you see in most of today's GSD. If your looking for a high trail sport dog, not sure if she would have made the grade for that in the obedience. Yes she was highly trained & easy to train, but if you gave her an inch she would push for a mile. She was always looking for that inch too.
But if you wanted a very smart versatile GSD that can do real work & sport then that would be a great line breeding.

I own a working line female now from famous sport dogs. The biggest difference is the size! The prey drive is so much higher. Also the ease of training, but less independent problem solving. My current GSD is actually easier to live with also as a pet. Not sure about real life protection, it's never been tested. She is great on a sleeve & strange places. But I don't have that feeling of complete security I did with my former GSD, not because she isn't protective but my former GSD had this presents about her + could give you just a look that could scare the crap out of someone. While my current GSD has a very stable temperament, it's just not the same some how. My previous GSD could be in a room when a bomb goes off & not even bat a ear, nothing phased her. My previous GSD loved a challenge of any kind, even when she attacked my stalker, he was punching, kicking, slamming her around, she looked like she was having fun. The more he fought her the harder she fought back & won. She never gave up on a search even if we worked from sun set to sun down. I guess you can say the former had heart & the new sport line dog has spirt. Both having their good points depending on what your looking for in a dog.

Hodie, I agree, it is too bad those folks don't still post here and share their knowledge.  It's hard enough information to come by, sad when we lose good sources of information.  

Still I think there is value in dialog and debating ideas.  It's not perfect, and no one has to take it as fact just because it was said on the internet, you are right in that it happens too much (not just on the internet, there are always people who believe everything they hear!). 

cphudson-  that sounds like an awesome testament to a fantastic dog, your first girl. 

If anyone has spent time following or studing these lines and dogs linebred on them, I'd still love to hear your opinions or predictions.  I know it's just a guess, but I would appreciate the comments.

Heather