Bi-Color/Bi-Black - What is the difference?? - Page 1

What is the difference in a Bi-Color & a Bi-Black??

If you have pictures it would be great.

have heard bi-black used for collies & shelties, but not GSD.... 

See this post from a few days ago:

www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/303413.html

No difference.

I call a bicolor a bicolor.  If they have black toe marks and tarheels, they are bicolor.  That said, some bicolors have "brighter" markings, or more tan on their points, than others do.  Some have eyebrows and cheek spots and chest shields and very little black down the legs to the feet, others have no facial markings at all, muddied chest shields, and black down the legs, sometimes black feet.  If there is a "bi-black" I would consider that the bi's with the minimal  markings and more black over the tan.  "regular bicolor" would be the bicolors that do have tan markings but still with black toemarks and tarheels.

Just because I happen to have a new litter of puppies who are starting to show their markings - here is a bicolor female who is going to have brighter markings, next to her brother who already has minimal facial markings which will most likely completely disappear as he continues to mature.

eichenluft ,

If you did not say they are bi color I would say they are black/tan, amazing!
I can ad one thing that indicates a puppy will turn out black/tan which is the brown color on back of ears, what do you say? 

Ibrahim, I agree - if black/tan puppies have ANY brown or develop any behind their ears, on shoulders or haunch or belly, or their black toe marks and tarheels fade out, they are black/tan and not bicolor.  MANY dark black/tans are called bicolor when really they are not.  In my puppy pictures - I am 100% certain the male is bicolor, and it appears he will be VERY dark "melanistic" or "bi-black" if you will.  The female could become black/tan if her toemarks/tarheels fade, but I expect they won't, I think she will remain bicolor but I've been wrong before.  They are only 4 weeks old so plenty of time to change.

molly

I don't know if I asked that before, Molly. But I cannot find any information on that subject anywhere since the Germans do not differntiate and/or worry about tarheels/toemarks. It is only mentioned as markings (Daumenmarken).
I know that the gene for bi-colors is different than the one for black and tan/brown/red. But does this gene need to be present in both breeding partners, or is one enough? Is this gene paired with the black gene or not, since the black gene is actually a masking gene?
I have an almost 20 week old female at home who is very dark. But she does not have toe heels, so I suspect that she is not a bi. Her father certainly does not carry this gene, but her mother does.

Silbersee, good questions.  I happen to love the bicolor as my favorite color, so have noticed it over the years.  I used to think that sable dogs with toe marks and tarheels automatically carried a black recessive - now I know that isn't true - sables with black toemarks and tarheels EITHER carry black recessive, or bicolor :) - a stud dog I used to have had black toe marks and produced no blacks, but he did sire bicolors.

I have a bicolor female with 'bright' markings (more tan than most, but still no tan on belly/behind ears, and black toemarks/tarheels) she does not carry black recessive.  So the answer to that question is no, bicolors are not necessarily connected to black recessive.  My female produces bicolors, sables and black/tans depending on who she is bred to - but no blacks (yes I have bred her twice to black males).

I have heard the different theories that bicolor is it's own color gene - I am not convinced (yet).  I have always thought that bicolor was a melanistic "tag" attached to the black/tan color gene.  But I am still not sure about that.  I guess if my two puppies pictured above turn out to be one black/tan and one bicolor, then the bicolor gene "tag" theory is correct and not the bicolor gene being separate.  The puppies' mother is sable (with bicolor/blacktan recessive) and the sire is black.

molly

I love the bi-colour, that male is a super looking pup.