Can This Dog Be Transitioned Away from Using a Prong Collar? - Page 1

Sounds you are in a real mess, but do not blame the dog. You say the dog is fearful. What probably happened in the first place is when a dog approached your pack she barked at it caused by her fear or more likely she just alerted as rank lower dogs do.Your respond was probably a strong "NO" which the dog understands as an acknowledgment rather than a correction and increased the snarling/barking.Then maybe a jerk and the mess is complete because the dog is in a conflict.. I have dogs in for training all the time with this issue. I resolve this problem relatively quick. Another dog approaches, my dog(actually clients dog) engages I then just turn around an drag the dog behind me without saying anything.
The dog will follow you and as soon as I feel the leash is slack I add "Come" and at dogs arrival I reinforce with praise or food or whatever. That way I resolved dog aggression countless times in a very short period of time. Most of the times I do this without  leash using just a fence between the dogs. Running away from your dog in a situation triggers one of the prime instincts in a dog, moving with the pack. The word"come" will become meaning to the dog, the pack is moving which creates some different kind of fear in the dog"I could lose my pack". Some dogs even respond just by another dog appearing. It will take with your dog probably longer than with youngster who just passed a puppy class where this problem is often created, but just be patient and do not try to apply human values to the dog or let your own ego getting in the way. Good Luck
All the best
Ulf

www.k9ulf.com

I have a similar problem with my girl of 15mo--the fear aggression, pulling on the leash.  We'd been using a prong collar on her, with minimal success, but she still just wouldn't LISTEN to us, ie RESPECT us.  That's when we hired a pro trainer to work with us one on one, and her attitude and obedience has improved tremendously since then.  One thing he's taught us to do when she barks or gets that "alerted" stance (ears and tail and hackles up--very focused), is to tell her to "Leave It".  That lets the dog know, "Hey, don't worry about it, it's not your concern" at the same time not reprimanding her for doing her job, ie, alerting her pack leader to a possible threat.  If she doesn't leave it, that's followed by a correction, followed by "NO!  Leave it!"  Unfortunately she's got a thick skin when it comes to corrections, and it was difficult for me to give her a proper one with just the prong, so we have been using the Dogtra ecollar...and it's amazing!  I'd say her reaction time to corrections has been halved, she's much more attentive, comes when she's called, all that good stuff.  We've made several training trips to the local dog park, starting from very far away, and working her closer when we see her become relaxed and curious (sniffing, watching the ducks, etc) instead of barking or getting worked up over people and dogs.  The last time, we went right up to the dog park fence, where there were two pit bulls inside, and they came right up to the fence, and after the initial "Leave it" and a correction here and there, she wasn't bothered by them a bit, just faced the other way.

Don't let her get the point where she even barks.  As soon as her body tenses (ears prick up, mouth closes, tail up), give her a "Leave It".  Don't wait for her to escalate to the barking and whatnot, as it will just make your job harder to get her calmed down.

You can try two collars/two leads. The prong and one lead and a fur saver with the lead on the live ring so you can do an audible 'pop' correction with the fur saver. Hold the leashes in different hands and know which hand controls which collar.

When you can predict a problem arising, i.e., another dog approaches in the distance, give a 'fuss' command or whatever you use for heeling and turn about face, using the lead with the fur saver as a gentle reminder. You're sort of steering her with the fur saver. If she's slow to follow give a sharp correction with the prong collar.

Whenever we train or walk we have both collars on the dogs. Normally, the lead is on the fur saver and under most conditions a pop on that collar is all the dogs need, but when we run into a situation we switch the lead to the prong collar for more control.

They get collar wise quickly which is why the two-lead approach is so useful. They never know which collar will bite them.

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I really like the idea of using two leads... I'll have to give it a try. Mum of Zoe, that's really true about not letting them get to the point where they are growling or barking. It took us both a while to realize that. For a while we thought the dog was just extremely aggressive because if we would correct her for barking/growling/lunging (this was when we were still using a choke chain) she would just take it up another notch and act for all the world like we had trained her to attack other dogs. Maybe we did teach her to act that way inadvertantly. Now we know to correct when we see her body language change. It usually doesn't take much....just telling her "No" is enough , but you can see she is still "on the edge" and any little thing (like if the other dog we're walking past becomes confrontational with her) could push her over. 

Puputz, I really don't think her reaction to corrections means she doesn't need the prong...she acts like that if you accidentally step on her foot, or when it's bathtime, or when we're at the vet (you should see her... claws out and skidding on the linoleum, whining, panting, hair falling out)....she's just a very nervous dog and very vocal about her insecurities. Her body language after a correction is definately not good, but it's a very fine line between just letting her go too far, or stopping her and seeing her cringe. We hardly ever pop the leash anymore unless she's just acting like a total jerk. She has corrected herself enough times to know not to lunge (this is where we have problems without the prong). I don't correct her physically for staring, but I do tell her no and I will correct her if she growls.

I have tried something similar to what Ulf suggested, where if we are walking and approaching a fence and there is a dog on the other side barking at us, I can say her name and then when she looks at me, we dart off in another direction. She really likes that game and it seemed to work pretty well, she forgets about the dog for the brief moments that we are running together. If we're walking past another leashed dog she can go by without making too much of a scene...she just breathes really loud. She usually always walks at heel position...sometimes I let her have the whole 6 feet, but only if I feel it is "safe".

All the trainers I have talked to have suggested using food to distract her and that has not worked at all. She just has no desire for it if we are outside her comfort zone (which is pretty much limited to her own house). She also has a hard mouth when she takes treats and she'll take the skin off your fingers if she's really wound up.  I've also tried taking her favorite toy to distract her, but she reacts pretty much the same...not interested unless we're at her house.

The interesting thing is that if we're around a lot of dogs, it's like it blows a fuse. For a while, we were going to a dog training class and she would pretty much ignore the other dogs unless any of them tried to get in her face. She's even gone to a doggie daycare a few years ago in an attempt to socialize her more (We of course disclosed her issues) with no reported problems.