Do not play ball with your dog.

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by Foxtrot6 on 06 May 2009 - 23:05

How much time do you spend playing with your dog. (with toys) When your done do you take the toys away?

When I first posted here that my dog is in my face every time I walked out the door with her ball. I was accused by some posters here of neglecting my dog.

Ive been reading Guard Dog Traaining by Willian Koehler and on page 65 he very clearly states "Above all do not play ball with your pup, nor permit anyone else to do so. Ball-playing generally grows into an obsession that can ruin a dog for protection work."

Now Im not trying to train my dog for anything, but my point is that this dog is completly obsessed with her toys, and has nothing to do with her being neglected.

Ive often wondered if I should take them away from her except at plat time.

by luvdemdogs on 06 May 2009 - 23:05

I play "throw the ball" "throw the frisbee" "throw the stick" in the yard, into the water, into the bush - it's great fun and more exercise for them than for me, thank god - and the throw toys are kept in a dog toy box accessible to the dog, just like our kid toy boxes were accessible to our kids. Inside the toy box are also the chew toys, marrow bones, cloth toys, etc. Usually the dogs go to the toy box and get out a chew bone. They never bring me a throw toy like a ball or a frisbee. I never thought of them being obsessed - I always just figured they'd think of their stomach first, LOL!

by Rik on 06 May 2009 - 23:05

Unless your dog is going to live in a junk yard, throw away any books you have by Koehler. And I say this from experience.

I am in charge of toys and my dog does not play with them until I bring them out. I put them up when the session is over. Chasing a ball is "prey" drive. Most people work very hard to develop this drive in their dogs.

If you can, take your dog to a class. You will not find Koehlers methods used anywhere except on the most hard core of dogs.

Rik

by Mindhunt on 06 May 2009 - 23:05

I have lots of toys for my dogs and yes, I too throw the balls, kongs, etc for them to chase and bring back. They go into the water for lots of fetching, tires them out. I have had my dogs in my face with their toys before and I don't think of them as obsessed, just having more energy and time than I have some days. I have them put their toys away at bed time in the box. Kind of like making my son pick up his toys before bed. I have taught my dogs the "give mom space" command which helps a lot. That means no more play for now, go lay down in your spot and chew on your bones or something. It took a bit to train them for the command but it was well worth it. My dogs are intelligent, healthy, and full of energy, I can't blame them for getting bored and wanting mom to play ball. The joys of working dogs

by Foxtrot6 on 07 May 2009 - 00:05

Chasing a ball is "prey" drive. Most people work very hard to develop this drive in their dogs.

Ive rarely seen a dog of any breed that didnt like chasing things.

I wonder if I take her toys away, how that may affect her mentally. Sometimes she will have the all gathered up near her bed. Other times they will get lost in the yard, though usually she can sniff them out.

I know working dogs with DoD and DEA dogs get their toy few a few moments after a good job. Dont know what happens off duty.

by Rik on 07 May 2009 - 00:05

foxtrot6 said "Ive rarely seen a dog of any breed that didnt like chasing things."

foxtrot, a couple of things.

1. I come from Am. s/l and most of the ones I've owned (several AKC champions included) would not chase a ball, or gave up after a couple of throws.

2. If you are an authority, then why are you seeking advice here. Shouldn't you just go ahead and finish your Koehler book and then you tube us to the finished product.

If you came here to educate, then get started. I am always in the learning mode.

Rik

by Foxtrot6 on 07 May 2009 - 00:05

Rik
Where did I say that I was an authority on dogs ?

While this is the first GSD that I have owned we have always had dogs in the house, 50 years worth, and as far as I can remember they always liked to play fetch.

My GS (6yo) will chase that ball all day long, or untill she gets tired, then she turns it into keep away, unless I tell her to drop, or leave it. But no mater how tired she is, if I throw it she seems compelled to chase it.

Ive always been told instint makes them chase it, why you never run from a dog.

by habanaro on 07 May 2009 - 00:05

Foxtrot I train Schutzhund and IMO opionion a dog that wants to work for a toy or ball can be a huge benifit. Today i ran a 4 hour old track with some modest food rewards on the track but the last article was the ball. My dog enjoys it so it was his reward. I don't know what your training goals are and perhaps that would be better evaluated at a club or with a trainer since its hard to do over the net. But I have used a ball for reward in Obedience for several years with different dogs some dogs I get better response with food. depends on the dog.

Are you currently training your dog in a protection sport?

by Slamdunc on 07 May 2009 - 00:05

I have toy / ball crazy dogs. I like high drive dogs and teach them to be crazy for their toys from young pups. My dogs have certain toys that they always have access too; like a kong. When my dogs come in the house, my Police K9 and a ScH 3 bitch they have a box filled with kongs. They will go and choose a kong to play with and lay down and chew on the kong.

I also have several rubber balls on ropes that I use for obedience training. These toys (and all the others) are mine, the dog gets the ball on the rope as a reward for correct obedience. This is our game. I don't simply play with my dogs, they earn the reward by working for it. That's our game.

There is an exception to this for my police K9, I will throw a ball to him to relieve stress after a "hot" call. If he has been put into a stressful situation while on patrol where it wouldn't be appropriate to reward or praise him publicly, I'll take him to a field and exercise him. Police work can be stressful for a dog, trust me.

My dogs also have several kongs in the yard for when they are outside. I've never had a moment when my dogs wouldn't work for a toy.   I like happy, high drive, focused obedience and the ball is a great motivational tool.

So why take the toys away from your dog? You said that you are not planning on doing anything with this dog regarding sports or protection work.

I would put away the Koehler book and not use that with your dog; then I'd buy her a new kong. There are some newer books with more contemporary training methods than Koehler (which was good at the time).

Rik you wrote:
1. I come from Am. s/l and most of the ones I've owned (several AKC champions included) would not chase a ball, or gave up after a couple of throws.

That is a very interesting and telling statement.

Jim

by Rezkat5 on 07 May 2009 - 00:05

Yes, we have toys for the dogs and we play ball/fetch with the dogs. For exercise, for fun, and during training.

My dogs work in both herding/schutzhund and I don't think it affects their work. The only thing that seems to affect their work is their handler. :)

Kathy

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