PSA - Page 1

I was hoping someone would tell me about their experiences with PSA. I have only ever done Schutzhund and want to start my future puppy with some PSA. The litter will be 3-4,5 on Yoschy so I'm not too worried about drive. I like the way PSA dogs work under distraction, so even if I never title in PSA, I'd sure like to give it a go. Has anybody tried it?

My gsd has been training for psa.  Last year she got her pdc.  I really enjoy it.  Although I am no expert in schutzhund I would say that in comparing the two there is less of a focus in obedience.  You having experience in sch that would be no problem for you.

The preferred bite area on the suit is the upper inside arm/shoulder area.  Although you will see some German Shepherds most dogs that compete are Malnois or Dutch Shepherds.

I do not think that the PSA1 or 2 would be extremely difficult.  I do not even want to try for the PSA 3.  Although I have a really nice dog I am not sure if she could handle that level, to be honest. 

The PDC is the protection dog certificate.  You do not have to get is you can go strait for the PSA1 if  you choose.

I really like training for the distractions and the different variables that come into play.  I prefer the suit work over the sleeve.  this being said she still works the hard sleeve.  I do not think that constant suit work is a good thing.

Finally some people will have the opinion that you and the rest of your PSA training friends are a bunch of inbred moonshine training hicks before they even meet you.

There is a vast difference vom. It is completely different!!!!!!!!

I could go all day on the differences haha.

No offense trouble- but PSA2 is still very difficult. Many dont ever get above a 1. and the pdc is a basic beginner level cert.

Vom take a look at www.PSAK9.org they have there rule book there.

Yes the dog has to work under distraction, will balls, pools of water, hotdogs,decoys etc..... on the field during obedience. They will put plates of food around the dog on the long downs etc....

Protection is what ever the judges can think up that day and everyone has to complete it so noone will know the scenarios.
except pdc- which is just a car jacking scenario and a walking courage bite. However this was a 2-3's scenario here at our stafford va trial last year. You approach a decoy with you offlead dog. shake hands chit chat. then a second decoy is an a** to you thats about 25 yards away and you send you dog. While you do that the friendly decoy tries to steal your car. You had to preform a call off and the dog had to return jump through passenger window of car and bite the thief. Then you had to out him and recall him out of the window back to heel.

I have seen them make dogs drag decoys out from under cars, take bites with decoys on bicycles, etc.... We had on with 4 guys hiding behind the truck with 9mm blanks, water hoses, etc.... and would send  the dog after one guy that ran back there.

It is much more demanding on the dog, the trainer, and you must have a blanced dog that has courage and a willingness to fight.

Also another difference I like is that the handler has a walk through with the judges for all the scenarios before test and a person calling off what you need to do. so its not a rountine of counted steps etc.....

Basically this makes you train for everything all the time and keep it up-  retrieve(anything metal/pvc/wood/etc...) , mark retrieves to find and retrive after bites, call offs, remote transports, regular transports, bites/outs/call offs must be 100%, must take extreme pressure including , solid obedience, etc... down the line.dog must bite through water sprayed in faces, clatter sticks on ribs, through bottles hanging off decoy, descriminate perps in multiple decoys, etc......

If you want to really learn about it I can put you in contact with the assistant director fo PSA (he lives about 15 min from me)and or the founder ( whom lives about 25 min from me)! Or just PM me Vom i can break it down for ya. and provide info on good clubs and such.

The part that is difficult for me is the obedience part.  As far as the protections phases my dog would be pretty rock solid on that part. 

My dog would be great in the OB if I was better at training her.  Although I have come a long way I still have a ways to go.

When I say that the 1's and 2's are not that difficult I am speaking from the standpoint of my dogs potential.  Environmentally the dog must be sound or the dog must have enough drive to motivate him/her through uncomfortable or unfamiliar situations. 

I noticed in one of the two's the malinois was fended off by the decoy with a 5 gallon water jug until the dog found a way in.  This dog looked great until this point.  The owner was a little disappointed.  The higher the level the more pressure the decoy puts into running the dog off.

I think that a lot or training misses the mark because people use the same decoys too often and in the same training area.  Then BAM come trial day the dog is in a new area with new decoys.  Now the dog has a lower threshold for avoidance.  Also I have noticed that dogs that don't target well have to put too much thought into where to bite and a moments hesitation turns into the dog being ran off.

Then the dog owner is saying "my dog has never done that before."

This is why I try my best to train my dog in as many different locations and with as many different good decoys as possible.  With an emphasis on good decoys, no training is better than bad training. 

On a side note, who is the founder of PSA?

Jerry bradshaw( owner of tarheel k9, founder of NTPDA, and PSA) Also sits as president of Dogs finding Dogs.

He lives in sanford NC and has another home here in Pasadena MD.


Greg Williams- at metropolitan K9 is the assistant director here in Glen burnie MD.



Trouble I can agree. 
I have just now found my potential candidate for PSA. I will be joining up with greg when Im done with developement and ready to move into the actual work. I watched him pass his 3 with his dog first time up and wasnt even going to trial him. We pressured him into it. He is a top notch trainer IMHO. So its all relative. A good trainer/club is always good to have.
Most of our PSA guys around here are cops so we go anywhere and everywhere to train. But its hard if you dont have that kind of group you know.

Does anyone have an idea of how many PSA 3's are out there? 

Also can a weak dog that has had the best training be doctored up enough to look good while competing for the 2's or 3's or would they just be ran off?


Also I cant think of anything more embarasing that your dog being ran off at a trial.

I dont know the exact number of threes but there isnt many.

I depends on the issue at hand. some can still be masked on a sport field in most venues.

I have seen multiple dogs ran in trial. I have seen two schh2 dogs as well. However after they pressure the dog and it is noticed they want bite- the judge immediately tells the decoy to give the dog a nice prey bite so the dog doesnt leave with a horrible experience.

Its about the closest to a true test for real ppd/police/military k9's for protection we have IMO. Its still a bit sporty though. But you will see many flaws brought to light very quickly in the high levels.

"Finally some people will have the opinion that you and the rest of your PSA training friends are a bunch of inbred moonshine training hicks before they even meet you."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Thanks guys, that's useful. I am also interested in that last question you asked, trouble. Hope somebody answers it. I hope the answer is no.

OK, I'm off to my second round at this new club that is REALLY interesting (LOTS of different kinds of training, not just Sch)  and doesn't give a rat's butt if I belong to UScA! Woohoo!

The dog has to withold some "beating"
I recommend smaller dogs for this type of sport. Personal experience. My next PSA is goung to be a 75 pounder!  Even if I have to starve it( joke)


I have a shutz 3 titled dog with shitty scores (he wont out, pushes the helper like his bitch and drags then jerking them around so they have heard time locking up) In PSA training because it is "real" in his head he is much more focused on the work that on making fun of the helpers.
(I have different helpers for both and he spends the first 2 bites figuring out if the helper diserves respect.. I know NOT GOOD)

The outs in PSA are clean, focused work.. love it. I don't know if I ever will be able to put PSA title on him (injury) but he sure likeeee more than Schutz.... and so his handler!

I think that it is the closest you can get to the real deal in civilian world. If you have a group of people who are dadicated to improve and have fun with their dogs; PSA is challenging and very demanding answer.

pack

Thanks GSDPack. THAT was very useful too. Gotta keep remembering that I have to do the activity that my dog is best suited to. My new puppy will probably be 10-15 lbs smaller than my current dog, so that's good too.