Back to Basics - Page 1

Good evening everyone,
I have been doing a lot of reading about the origins of the GSD. I just would like to know the opinions of the board on the matter of getting our beloved breed back to the old styled German Shepherd Dog in workability, temperament, structure, and pigment? I looked Busecker Schloss, Lierberg, and Kirschental dogs and they seemed to have had the idea of how the GSD should be. Consistently these kennels produced well structured (VA, V, Kkl1) dogs with excellent workability and temperament (SchH3, HGH). They also bred many bi color and sable dogs along with black and tan saddle marked. What would have to be done to get back to that? I am a big fan of DDR-WGR Showline crosses. Would we have to start intermixing the bloodlines? 

I'm just curious to opinions on this. I looked at the Kirschental website and read the history and I really loved the looks of the dogs he produced.

It has always been about selective breeding.
Who is doing the selecting and why is the true secret.
And having access to the correct stock.

If the breed went totally bqak to basics, it might have to be divided into German Shepherds and German Protection Dogs - one for each original use.  Seems to me, the sport of schutzhund has almost taken over the characterization of "working" .  

what most of us consider a drow back of working/show mix is that those dogs are '' unacceptaple''  for showing and working, just becase they are not bread just for a spesific purpose.  THATS

what most of us consider a draw back of working/show mix is that those dogs are '' unacceptable'' for showing and working, because they are not bread just for a specific purpose. THATS THE REASON WE DON'T BREAD THE BEST WE CAN.

   To say that any German Shepherd needs to be bred for "any" specific purpose, I believe is an injustice to the breed.They should be multi-purpose dogs, as they serve multi-purposes. The breed already suffers a major seperation from showline/workingline people.
    That's who holds the bad blood. If you read some of the recent threads, there is hardly a showline dog that deserved the titles they received at the SS last week. Why bother to title or even try to title when you know your dog didn't "hold up ' to a REAL working dog? And we all know a showline IS NOT worth what people charge for them.
   My little grl here, is showline/working line cross. She has an excellant tempermet, is very high drive, and I think is structurally sound. Her color is coming in quite nice also.

Dear kitkat
'' And we all know a showline IS NOT worth what people charge for them"
we all know that money is not the why people bye a gsd show or working line.

I believe they should mix the lines (working and show ) ! while I do not belieave It is an over night fix as far as brains and beauty all in one dog .I do believe over lets say twenty years of select breeding with good stock  from the best of all bloodlines it can be accomplished . OK who wants to invest twenty years to fix the problem ? We all should want this  and unless we die from swine flu or some other disaster thats wipes us off the face of the earth, some one with the "secrets " and stock should start  fixing the problem withen the breed . I can see victory for the German Shepherd If we take away our predjudice from such an idea .

 People who are more experienced than I may have very good reasons for disagreeing, but IMHO it sounds reasonable.  It would take breeders being ok with shooting for less than first place, in either type of competition - shooting for second best in both worlds.

Sounds ok to me.  Once again, I'm no expert.

Here's another thought - Schutzhund is more of a sport - what about adding to the mix "real work" breedings, in the return to the original purpose of the breed?

Well they are taking first place with less then perfect dogs now . I think that is politics . They could keep there first placer less then perfect dogs and still have all the glory.  while behind scene  start fixing the problem and slowly changing the look and attitude on the dogs .Im not saying they should have to mix all working dogs lines up . I'm all for keeping the old lines pure if thats what they would like to do . I love working lines ,I just think they are all heading for diaster is the lines don't open up alittle . Even on working lines how many per litter are all sch 3 candidates with high scores and good looks to go with it ?  We need to give alittle to get a lot .