My young puppy was diagnosed with Ruptured Crucial Ligament - Page 1

Hm... My pup  of 13 months has been limping for a week on his hind leg and shifting weight to the others. I did not see what happened, but it seems he was chasing a squirrel then I heard yelping. I came out, checked the legs, made sure, no splinters, toenail etc... he was fine that day, normal work, normal ball throwing etc... Tomorrow he started a slight limp and it had been limping ever since. I thought it was a pulled muscle, so I did some icing, anti inflammatory pills, massage and no work whatsoever.

Did not improve, didn't get worse either, so I continued with what I was doing hoping it will resolve itself. A few days ago he was a bit better, but still not really using that leg. Not limping, walking "almost" normal, but not using that leg much. The telltale sign was when standing, he would not put any weight ont hat leg, just kind of tiptoe on it. That was the tell tale sign to me it was not "just" the sprained muscle. I already made animal chiropractor appointment, thinking if it's a muscle, she'll fix him right up, or so the theory goes. Onto the orhto and specialized vet that eaxmined him a few hours ago.

I just got back from that fancy vet and a chiropractor. At first I thought it was pulled muscle, I told them. So the orhto ver looked him over. They performed the drawer test and it seems it's ruptured crucial ligament - said she would be "really surprised" if that is not the case and is 98% sure of it that it is.

They advise sedating and taking x rays to see it more and confirm that indeed it is and if so I am looking at 2 grand surgery and 6 to 8 weeks of pretty strict rehab and therapy, it seems.

I was in a pretty shitty mood driving with him home thinking his "illustrious future Schutzhund career" is over before it really began. The puppy is 13 months and change.

Suggestions, please? Opinions?

Now, I don't mind too much 2+ grand. I cringe, but I would do it, it's the right thing to do, the dog is too young, not to be given a chance.

The real question is from people that work their dogs and have been through with it? Can the dog still do the work, shutzhund training and everything that goes with it fater the surgery and rehab. Yes or no? How was it with your dog? Career ending injury or he/she bounced back and never looked back? Or they got a job demotion instead of promotion and became a pet afterwards and ended everything they were bred for.

Thanks to anyone who can answer my questions.

My Rotti ruptured her crucial ligament.  After a year off, she was able to do light training. I was never able to put titles on her but we had fun with what we could do. She did some bite work but always favored that leg. All dogs heal differently, it will depend on him. Good luck with him!

I feel for you Adi.
My little bitch has torn an ACL twice. Last time just a few months ago.
A positive drawer test is indicative if torn or ruptured ACL. According to my ortho vet, the more movement, the worse the damage. X-rays may or may not show any damage, or may not reveal the full extent of the damage.

Her first injury was career ending but besides the torn ACL she had dislocated the hock and fractured the leg in two places. Major surgery and I did not wish to continue training her and risk more extensive damage to the leg. The second tear was minor, no surgery, a few weeks rehab and crate rest and she's fine now. She does anything and everything she wants to do. If you see the thread about 1st aid kits, I posted a few pics there. Same dog after the first accident. She does favor that leg a bit when she's very tired and can't quite "cut" like she used to.

If I can find the CD of her last xrays, I'll post them up here. Positive drawer, very little if anything shows on xrays.

A week old injury, you need to make a decision soon. The longer you wait, the harder it will be to repair. I'd do the xrays and discuss options with your ortho vet. Recovery and future work depends on the extent of the tear, the individual dog and if you do opt to do surgery, how well it turns out. Rehab and preventing any further damage is a big factor in recovery.  He'll maybe have arthritis in his knee when he gets older and his working life may be shortened by a year or two. But, no reason not to give him a chance.

People who have had experineces with this have told me that when they blow one, they have like an 80% chance of blowing the other one out.

Several people I have talked with said they performed the surgery with succesful results but not for competition. Just a normal life. With that said, these dogs were all over the age of 5 when they were injured

Bummer! One misstep and--wham! You and your pup have my sympathy.

The pup's knee should be fixed whether he'll be doing Schutzhund or not--otherwise arthritis will rapidly set in and cause him a great deal of pain.

Which surgery does the vet recommend? There are reports of working dogs going back to work successfully after TPLO surgery. This is very different from the surgery that replaces the torn ligament with nylon sutures.

There are 2 types of repair- the cheaper, less effective one is called an extra-capsular repair.  (In a nut-shell, the surgeon makes a "new" cruciate out of very heavy suture.)  It's great for dogs under 50 lbs, and quiet, or older house pets.  If you want your pup to have any chance at all of competing, you'll have to do a TPLO.  Much pricier, but a much better surgery.  Your dog is young, and GSD's don't seem to have as high an incidence of CCL rupture as some of the more straight legged breeds, like rotts and labs.
You sure have my sympathy on this diagnosis.

Whew. Now, that I am an "expert" on blown knees, surgeries TPLOs etc... I will answer everyone that posted the message. thanks to anyone for their kind thoughts, emails and PMs to me. It is hugely appreciated and I am thankful.


1) Jaded Dragon Kennels - thank you for your message. From what I now now that I extensivey researched the topic is the post op matters more than the op itself. It's a slow, painful process (as you know!) and the dog has to walk on eggshells for a long time. They are never the "old dog" they were before the injury and surgery, but they can recover up to 80% to 85% of their former self with a lot of therapy and rehab.

2) Mobjack - thanks for an informative message.

3) Get a Real Dog - thanks for the write up. "People who have had experineces with this have told me that when they blow one, they have like an 80% chance of blowing the other one out." - This, sadly is true. The likelihood of the dog that goes through this injuring the other eg within a year of the surgery is indeed very high.

I have spoken with a Military DVM at lackland AF base in San Antonio. I figured he shoud be the most competent to answer the question about a Sch dog and TPLO since he deals with Military Service K9s doing stuff in Iraq and Afghanistan. His professional opinion is after a good post op rehab and therapy MOST dogs could resume their duties with 80% or so if their former abilities. They will never be their old self, but they can do a passabe job for a while, then they wil retire a bit early. My other research kind of confirmed this as well.

4) WiscTiger - Great, informative and uplifting post, than you. Everything you said was pretty much on the money and my research after you typed it confirmed it all.

5) Susanandthek9s - thanks for writing. "The pup's knee should be fixed whether he'll be doing Schutzhund or not--otherwise arthritis will rapidly set in and cause him a great deal of pain." Of course his knee would have been fixed, schutzhund or no schutzhund, that was not a problem at all he would have gotten everything he needed and more. Yes, TPLO is the only surgery that gives the working dog a chance at being okay and doing the job decenty afterwards.

The other methods work okay for smaller dogs, just house pets and dogs that are not canine athetes, service dog or competitors. I briefly considered a new type of surgery invented by Dr. Cook out of Kentucky. It is less invasive and easier to do, but I was not convinced of its effectiveness for worign dogs. It is stil kind of experimenta and the evidence of its success with "pets" is great, but for working dogs is small or none. I called and emailed the doctor that invented it and he has no idea if it would work for a working dog or not, so I scratched that lead. It is a promising surgery, but at this moment in time TPLO is it.

6) MYGuyKai - Your message is on the money as well, all good facts and solid opinions. Thanks!

7) Windwalker - same as Kai above, excelent advice and if my dog indeed had the rupture that advice was golden.

I did look at the X ray she took and it was obvious it was pano, pretty big dark splotch on the bone, even to a dumbass like me. Both knees looked just fine in the X ray. Of course, crucial ligament cannot be seen int he X rays, but other stuff can to make an educated guess. Nothing there, just 2 knees doing okay.

Took a look at the hips too. I figured what the hell, I am already paying 100 bucks for an x ray, might as well look what's in there. One hip is or rather "seems" a excellent, doctor concured and the other one is so-so, either "good" or fair, but I was so relieved and happy I didn't give 2 flying craps about that, fair sounds GREAT to me. A huge weight has lifted off my shoulders.

I wanted to buy lunch for everyone at the vet's office yesterday.

On an unrelated funny note... The poor guy has had a HUGE red rocket the whole time we were there, wel, come to think of it. He hasn't done anything for 3 weeks and this is a dog that gets worked twice a day, so if the leaf falls of a tree or wind blows, he's got the Apollo 13 sticking out, so whole vet office front staff got a good laugh out of him.

He seemed to enjoy it.

We'll take it easy with leash walks for a week, then off leash walks for another week, then he's back.

The dog is a senior pup now that 13 monthgs and change and more serious stuff can continue.