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by StinkyK9 on 27 April 2009 - 02:04
We are talking a non-pro handler here, so would like the opinions of you pro's out there. The dog is back tied, but still manages to creep forward a bit and/or flip flops/shifts from time to time.
Thanks.... :-)

by MVF on 27 April 2009 - 02:04
I suspect you have done this already, but this is the basis of moving away at a distance and turning your back.
by StinkyK9 on 27 April 2009 - 03:04
I appreciate the reply...

by Don Corleone on 27 April 2009 - 03:04
Most clubs sit there and BS while someone is on the field. When it is your turn to put the dog in a down, do it, go 5-10 feet away while keeping an eye on him and shoot the ship with other members. After a bit, give the dog his reward. Slowly you move the dog further out until it is at required length.
Rewards are important and so is being spontaneous. You always want the dog to focus on you for that reward or next command. Varying what you do helps a bit too. If everytime you return to the dog, he sits or is corrected, he will anticipate the sit or go into avoidance in anticipation of a correction. Sometimes, return to the dog only to leave him again. Sometimes, give him his rewrd, play,and back to a down.
If you go in pieces as MVF explained, the dog will be fine. If that doesn't work, use a 2X4 on him. He'll never creep towards you again.
by StinkyK9 on 27 April 2009 - 04:04

by Two Moons on 27 April 2009 - 18:04
Then and only then, when I'm satisfied, does the dog get any praise or any kind of reward.
After I've moved from a few yards to maybe 50 yards I will go out of sight completely starting at a few seconds to a couple of minutes. You have to keep at it is all, takes time and a lot of walking back and forth. Only give the command once, no other sounds need be made.
My dog will stay through most distractions with the exception of children offering play, still working on that one.
Just takes more time.

by Slamdunc on 27 April 2009 - 23:04
The best way I have found to train a steady sit and down is with oppostition training. You use the opposition reflex to casue the dog to pull into the down and it can't creep forward. The dog will actually pull backwards into a rock solid down. Works great for the sit out of motion and Stand.
Once I have a reliable down under distraction; I proof it. I bring the dog I'm training ont the field and do some obedience and reward with a toy. Then I put the dog in a down stay (platz) and bring out a second dog. I do obedience with the second dog around the first, causing the second dog to actually step over the "downed" dog. I then reward the second dog with a brisk game of fetch with a toy. I throw the toy directly passed the first dog's nose who is in a down. The second dog runs past the first dog to get the toy. It is very tempting for the first dog to beak the down.
I ensure that I have a method of correcting the first dog instantly if he breaks the down. EIther a long line or an E-collar; or both. The dog already understands the platz command and gets an effective correction immediately. After 5 or 10 minutes (depending) with the second dog I put it away and go back to the first dog. I praise and reward the first dog very enthuasistically; then I have a high energy fetch session with the dog.
That is the entire training session at that time. If I'm working on the "platz" (down and stay for me) I work just that on several consecutive sessions and nothing else.
FWIW,
Jim
by StinkyK9 on 27 April 2009 - 23:04

by Slamdunc on 28 April 2009 - 00:04
Sure, Stinky. ; )
Ok, opposition reflex is when you are walking your dog down the street on a leash and choke collar for example. You may have noticed that the dog will pull into the collar and choke itself. This is the opposition reflex, the dog pulls against pressure in the opposite direction. People don't have this, if you had a choke collar on your neck you would stop pulling and not get choked. Dogs are the opposite.
So, to use this natural tendancy of the dog to pull against pressure we have "opposition training." It is easier to explain with the sit and stay. I'm assuming we are not talking about a puppy, but a dog that knows sit, down and stay.
Ok, put a leash on the dog,I prefer on a prong collar for this but a flat collar will work also. Tell the dog sit and stay, grab the snap on the leash and step in front of the dog. You should be standing directly in front of the dog holding the snap for the leash in your hand. The snap should be directly under the dog's chin. Now, begin to walk bacwards feedng the leash through your hand as you move back.
Think of the leash in your hand as fishing line on a reel. Let out the leash as you move backwards keeping constant tension. The dog will actually pull against this pressure and sit very solidly. Now, the dog will break the sit and come to you initially. Simply grab the dog by the collar and walk directly into the dog pushing the dog back to it's original spot and command "Sit Stay" and repeat.
When you have the dog sitting steadily and you are applying pressure reel yourself back into the dog and stand in front of the dog and release, praise and reward. This progresses to a 30' lead and you moving side to side while applying pressure. Then you add in distractions like throwing a ball in front of the dog and the dogs stays solidly while the toy flies by.
The down is taught the same way. It is amazing to see how much tension the dog will put against you and the leash. When you are pulling the dog will tighten all his muscles to stay in that sit or down position. The sit / down becomes rock solid.
FWIW,
Jim
by StinkyK9 on 28 April 2009 - 00:04
I appreciate everyone's responses. Some excellent advice that I will put into use.....
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