Assistance dogs - Page 1

just had a lady phone me interested in buying one of my pups to be trained as an assistance dog. 

dogs for the disabled have said they wont train a GSDas it is a guarding breed?!

the lady has 25 years as a dog trainer and has owned GSDs for 20+ years.

my concern is that my pups will be too drivey    

she is coming for a visit on Friday and i would like to have some information as to what is required. general care of the dog isnt a problem as she has a husband who is in good health and several carers who help her daily

anyone got an assistance dog ? or had experience training one .

is thre any other reason a GSD isn't suitable as an assistance dog other than the common misconception they are aggressive?

I don't know anyone wilth an assistance dog, Tracie... but good for you, I hope it pans out.  Shepherds being protective should not be an issue... should it?

i wouldn't have thought so provided the pup is well balanced and properly socialized but im not sure what to look for in a pup ,  

I have some experience with service/assistance dogs. Having too high of a prey drive might make a dog too distracted. But the idea that GSDs do not make good assistance dogs is preposterous as we, and a number of our associates, use German Shepherds EXCLUSIVELY because of their versatility, trainability, and intelligence. In fact, the Kamans have been breeding their own dogs as guide dogs for the blind (from strictly German lines) for more years than I can count.

If you have a low to medium-drive dog, possibly female or neutered male, I don't see why not. The most important qualities include the ability to focus on the job and ignore distractions. It is OK if the dog is a little protective. Often working dog vests come with patches that tell people not to pet the dog. Education makes it more common for more people to be aware that they should not bother a dog at work.

Unless someone needs or wants a small dog, or a dog of a different breed, I don't see any reason why a GSD with a calm and stable character (ideal for any GSD) should not be used. Anyone who says differently is either ignorant or is confusing their personal tastes with good judgment and FACT. This is not up for debate.

Please feel free to contact me for any other questions you might have. I can also direct you to some interesting resources. Organizations that either train or certify particular types of assistance dogs would also give you more detailed information about what qualities a dog should posses to do a specific type of job. 

Your info is what makes this board worthwhile, Kinolog!  Someone on here will ALWAYS know!  Keep us posted please, Tracie.

Thank-you Kinolog.

i will PM you tommorow (my brain is fried today lol .)

Is there a puppy test?

I use volhards tests on my pups http://www.siriusdog.com/volhard-puppy-aptitude-test.htm

i would guess a dog scoring 3/4's would be preferable?

Assistance/service dogs are usually evaluated several times. There are any number of basic temperament tests that can be used to evaluate a pup. Once the dog gets older, the evaluations get more targeted. If you have an idea of what job the dog will need to do, you will have a basic idea of what working abilities will need to be the most dominant. But for a young pup you can use a more global assessment while being aware of his/her natural propensity for focus. This may become better developed as the pup gets older. The greater the ability he shows at a younger age is your best bet as a future indicator.

The only reason I can think of that a GSD wouldn't work out would be if it did have a lot of drive, as an assistance dog by definition spends  vast amounts of its time lying quietly around the house.  Yes, it has its tasks to perform but not in a high-speed manner, but in a slower and careful manner.

"Working line" in a lot of circles has come to mean a VERY active dog that wouldn't be happy in that kind of sedentary job.

I do know people, though, who had their Shepherd certified.  There was a huge age difference in this couple, and there was a period of time where one of them spent a lot of time in the hospital and then in assisted living until he was well enough to come home.  His certified dog could come visit him all the time, which is why they did it, foreseeing the health issues and making it so much easier to have the dog admitted to both the hospital and the AL center.  This was a very sweet GSD and she had to learn to lie quietly for long, long periods of time, even lying next to him on the bed so he could touch her, being unable to reach down to the floor.  This family had the means to have someone take the dog for long runs and swims to burn off her energy, but it definitely wouldn't have been suitable for a dog bred to be extremely ball-crazy.

Nonsense about the "guarding breed" stuff.  GSD were fantastic Seeing Eye dogs for a long, long time.  I think there are more Labs with crappy, snappish temperaments but they're the Guide Dogs now.

If this woman on Friday knows the breed I bet she'd do great at training a GSD as an assistance dog.

My Hearing Ear assistance dog is a GSD I rescued at the age of three. He is calm, steady, even-tempered and great with kids. He is not startled by loud noises or traffic. I have had him in a room where a party was going on: wall-to-wall people, loud music, and very dimly lit. I think I was far more stressed by it than he was! He took it all in stride.

He is very quick to learn. It took exactly three dog cookies dropped in front of his nose to teach him the 'leave it' command. When I had a professional trainer come to my home to help me to teach him to alert me to the door, she also started to teach him to respond to the kitchen timer. After just one or two trials, I told her the timer wasn't really important, as I rarely used it, and we moved on to other things.

Approximately six months later, I was timing something I was cooking, and had the timer beside me on my desk, so I'd be sure to hear it. The moment it beeped, Ranger was right at my elbow, nudging me. At first, I thought he was generalizing from the beeping of the alarm clock. It wasn't until a few days later, I recalled that one brief session with the trainer!  I have heard trainers say an exercise must be repeated at least 60 to 100 times before a dog will respond reliably. They must not be training German Shepherds, at least not the ones I've known!

Except for that one session with the trainer, I have done all his training myself. Fortunately, Hearing Ear dog tasks are pretty simple to teach. We had trouble with the door because he'd been an outside dog, and didn't know what a knock or a doorbell meant. Now he even sometimes woofs when someone knocks on the door on T.V.!

When choosing a possible service dog, you should look for a pup that has high pain tolerance, as it is going to get jostled and stepped on now and then. It should be interested in people more than in other dogs. Drives/energy level should be medium to low, as the dog will have to just lie at its owner's feet for long periods.  Needless to say, it should not be frightened by loud noises, as it will have to deal with traffic, cars backfiring, etc.

An assistance dog can be of  any breed or mix. Some programs have prejudices both for and against some breeds. That is why some people like myself choose to train our own or have one trained specifically and individually since program dogs often also only have minimal general skills. The dog just needs to meet the preferences and desires of it's partner, have sufficient training to meet public access requirments AND must be trained for tasks which mitigate the persons disability.  For a discussion of some of what the law requires of the dog and what constitutes a disability under the law you may want to see this other thread posted earlier this year.   http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/272036.html  I also suggest this link http://www.iaadp.org/iaadp-minimum-training-standards-for-public-access.html. You may want to suggest the iaadp site to your prospective buyer.

You did not state what kind of assistance dog ( guide/hearing/service) the person was looking for and what the expected tasks the dog would be trained to do. These as well as the person's physical abilities very well might impact on the choice of a GSD as the assistance dog. The reality is a GSD takes a certain amount of physical strength to work with no matter how well trained. There is also the consideration of size. My girl is a very large female and while that helps me when I need her for balance it does present difficulites when dealing with small places such as airline seats or going "under" the table at a restaurant where the table is small or if there are several other assistance dogs present. I choose to deal with that and some other minor issues because I am a GSD person and have been for 40 plus years.

I did see some red flags in the information you presented. "general care of the dog isnt a problem as she has a husband who is in good health and several carers who help her daily". 1. you are presuming the husband and attendants wish to do this and like dogs and are not intimidated by GSDs. All very large assumptions. 2. the husbands health can change in an instant and in fact statistics show  it is common for the caretaker to die before the disabled individual they are caring for does because of the stress involved. 3. the several caretakers who help her daily - how long have they been with her. This is a job that pays minimum wage and has great turnover because of the low pay and physical demands and even if the current ones are ok w/ dogs future ones may not be. 4. The fact that she needs several caretakers suggests to me she does not have the phyicality needed for a GSD. 

Finally, Tess please take a look at these links re my Remy who is both my service dog and my sport dog. She comes from KNVP stock and there is no question of her drive level. Me thinks she gives the lie to you're statement above.http://www.allk-9.com/sontausen/remy.htm and http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/485683.html