Laser Targeting - Page 1

Does anyone know of or has trained dogs using laser pointers to point out the bad guy. I understand some SWAT teams with dogs are doing it as guns carry laser pointers to aim.

 Seen it and used it.

I am training my police K9 to do a directed search with a laser pointer.  It is used to direct him to search a paticular door or clear a certain room in a building.  It can even be used to clear a section of woods or a wooded area.  Most swat teams I see do not use Laser sights, some specialized military units do.  Our Swat team does not use laser sights on our guns.  One problem is that you are now pointing your gun at a "bad guy" which may be ok, depeneding on the situation and handling your dog.  But to be in a stack or train with other swat team members it may not be safe.  Our dogs are used on entries but the handler is usually 3rd or 4th in the stack and sends the dog past the first 2 or 3 swat guys for clearing a room; when the dogs clears the room he is downed and the team enters.   You could wind up "muzzling" the guys in front of you as you point your gun with a laser sight to direct the dog, also keep in mind the laser gives away your position.  The bad guy can see the laser and trace it back to you fairly easily.  So there are applications for it and it can work quite well in the right situation. 

JMO,

Jim

Bad idea for many reasons.
Most of all anyone can be holding a laser and your in deep doo doo.
Lasers can drive a dog nuts in my opinion if used as a toy.
Lasers, and some pointers can damage eye sight permanently. 
I use them and own several kinds, some very powerful, they are not toys.   Mine would blind you instantly if not permanently.
And yes the bad guy can see them too. 

 

Jim,

I was mainly interested in its efficacy to target a guy in a crowd to be able to send the dog to get him, like say on a railway platform with many commuters where it may be possible to laser designate the suspect from an elevated position - I only mentioned SWAT because I seem to have read somewhere of its use by them. Was toying with the idea of trying it but wanted to know more from persons who have used it rather than spend time reinventing the wheel. Do you think it would be possible to guide the dog by progressively illuminating a path through a crowd to check out or bring down a suspect by finally illuminating him steadily?

Two Moons,

I agree - I have seen some animals, not just dogs, made to go nuts by people who think it is amusing. Fortunately, most of the laser pointers easily available are of low intensity.

One of my dogs would jump through fire to get to a laser, climb a tree.
It would work for targeting but the dog would be after the laser and not the target in my opinion.
And again it would have so many draw backs I don't see it as anything useful.
Once the dog gets a taste of it its a hard habit to break. 
And if you catch a bystander in the eye, then what.   If not mounted on something they are hard to hold on target at long distances.
I still say bad idea.

P.S.
Your right about people using them for play, been there done that, I know better now.

The laser has many applications for directed K-9 searches, and is used succesfully by many specialized units.  It requires training to get a dog to do a directed search with a laser.  The dog is not interested in the laser as a toy, it is no different then pointing your finger at a door or room and saying "check."  The dog goes where directed to search.  The laser is just another tool and has a much further range than my finger. I could be 100 yds down a school hallway and accurately direct my dog in the dog with a laser pointer to a certain room or door.  This alleviates the handler leaving a position of cover and exposing themselves or having to speak in a loud voice to the dog.  In these situations it is a fantastic tool.

I would not use it on a person in a crowd.  There are too many variables.  Innocent people seeing a police dog running at them begin to scream or run and the dog may not target the bad guy.  Someone else steps in front of the bad guy now the laser is on him and not the bad guy.  So, I don't have a real world application for targeting people with a laser pointer.  The military in afghanistan or Irag might, but they have different rules of engagement that we do.  I don't use my dog to check out people in a crowd.  If I send my dog it is to apprehend and bite someone.  We don't do reasonable force or a hold and bark, although my dog will.  When I send my dog it is with and apprehend command.  If I don't want the subject to be bitten I don't send the dog.  If the subject gives up and complies I can either down my dog or recall him before he reaches the suspect.  Targetting is very critical with a K-9 and you have to be very sure who your dog is going to target.  That is why I wouldn't send him into a crowd off lead as you are describing.  There are too many variables and too much liability.  Like everything else in police work, you have to know your limitations and the abilitiy of the dog.

Jim  

I personally don't care for lasers and the effect they can have on a dog.  Most people think they are toys and they are sold as toys in some stores.  Yes it's cute at first but it loses it's appeal very quickly.  Some moron was in line behind me at Petsmart using a laser to try and entice my girl.  Thank goodness she ignored it and someone else's dog went after it.  We were there for socialization and looking for a toy at the time.  I heard giggling and spotted the idiot and I know he didn't mean any harm but please people...don't mess with other people's dogs!  I hate it when I have to show how ugly I can be when dealing with the brainless.
Deb

I appreciate your point Deb.  Like anything else: in the hands of one person it is a tool, in the hands of someone else it's a toy.   I don't use mine as a toy and my dog doesn't view it as a toy.  If I shined it on the ground he would look at it and then look back at me, he won't chase it.  He has a different motivation with it.  In my line of work there are definate applications for it.

Jim