do really know were and how american shepherd started??? - Page 1

how many people really know how american shepherds were started ,just like to know (I'm not indorseing american blood lines)  HINT   ( WW 2)

The American Shepherd started when americans stoped selecting for working qualities and started selecting cripples for the showring.

Same thing we did to Arabian horses later on. (Anybody remember when Arabians used to be incredibly versatile?) The breed was doomed for a long time in this country when the Germans figured out dogs didn't have to earn working titles (or even hip ratings) to be bred here, so they could dump their good-looking bums on us for extravagent prices and the US customer would be thrilled regardless.
The real trouble IMO came when the GSDCA made up their own standard, contrary to that of the SV, and dogs bred to the original standard placed in the toilet in GSDCA Specialties, leaving Americans no incentive to breed German dogs. For some reason, Americans fell all over themselves for creating dogs with huge side-gaits, thereby building dogs who walk on their hocks, ligaments barely strong enough to stay upright in a strong breeze. Try sending one of those over a 39" hurdle with a 2.2 lb. dumbell! (No need = no worries) I don't know why they went to the idiotic-looking muzzles, long enough to lick the bottom out of a jelly jar, and the loppy-ear-look.

My favorite comparison is to take a stacked photo of an American Grand Victor, ski-jump back, long nose, over-built chest, standing on its hocks, and place it next to a photo of a Sieger, then cover up the back halves of both dogs, flip my hand to cover the front halves, and ask if the back half of each dog looks like it could efficiently push the front half around a ring and/or over a scaling wall.
Lance of Fran-Jo would never have gotten off the ground IMO.

Thankfully the above American trends have reversed somewhat in the last decade or so.
SS

Shelly is right, and I think the '70s were the big downfall for the breed here in America.  I know a few old timers, my mentors in my youth that stopped breeding at this time because they did not agree on the structure that was winning in the show ring.  The same division is happening now with the German Show lines and working lines, both here and in Germany.  The SV needs to step it up!

To think Bodo Lierberg was once in the states being bred and now.....

Dan Juros

Yes, read the Genetic History of the German Shepherd Dog!  It gives great detail about what German Dogs were used to create many of the great American Showlines.

Vickie
www.PowerHausKennels.com

 Thanks Shelley for stating that it is improving a lot for the past decade..
Even tought I now breed Showline now I started with W/L in 1992 (wasn't breeding then).  The first time I came accross some Am. Bred I could believe my eyes!  And yes as some like to state it..they looked very unbalanced and the temperament wasn't strong either..In 1992..If what I saw would be what it is today I would have never own a Am. Bred..

But like I try to point out (and it is pretty difficult on this site). a lot of improvement has been done and it is not what it was 20 or even 15 years ago..Of course you have breeders that breed bad temperament etc..but that happens even with W/L or GSL.  There is some very good Am. dog out there with great temperament and very good health and genetic.  It is possible to select for temperament and health first and still have beautiful dogs. IMO.  We only have to work at it and stop trowing rocks at each others cause that doesn't help.

My dogs can jump and retreive a dumbell..they have a very strong herding instinct and are tireless..just didn't do any bitework in a long times..Good decoys is pretty rare around here. But i'll find one to show you that it can be done with a show dog (Am. Bred).  My last one is a little young but I will start him in a short while..

 July,

That is part of the problem, the emphasis on having a "beautiful dog" with NO concern about working ability.  Indeed, how can there be any, when none of the antecedents are selected for anything but "beauty," even to the detriment of health, temperament and working ability.  I frankly do not see how it would be possible to breed an AMbred with working ability, as it is understood, from stock that has never had it at any point in the past 30-40 years.  WHERE is it supposed to come from?

I have NOT seen this much-touted improvement, at least not in the Ambreds in the AKC show ring in this area.  They are the same hock-walkers, with ears flopping in the breeze, that can't be gendered at a glance, with ski-slope backs, and muzzles so sharp that you could open cans with it.   That is what I saw just this past weekend and, no doubt, what I will see at the specialty in May.

The American Shepherd (and yes, I do think the name should have been changed when the GSDCA standard was improvised and set into place) IS getting better overall IMO. We actually have a 1/2 (almost) Am. line pup here at club, 12 weeks old, that isn't bad, might actually do the work, not bad looking. Typical of so-called breeders' non-programs around here, his pedigree contains a "smattering" of nearly everything GSD... Czech, W. German show, American show, and some I don't recognize at all... no titles for 2-3 generations (and more on the bottom line, probably none) but some of that working blood snuck in to this pup.
I am pleased to note that he's a decent prospect for the sport, owners showing serious interest, but I'd hate to encourage the breeder to stay on the track that produced this one prospect. No worries there. They obviously don't listen to anything I tell 'em anyway.
You can lead 'em to water....
Sigh...
The sad part- They get more for their pups from kitchen-sink pedigrees with no titles for 2-3 generations than I ask for my top prospects, litter after litter, year after year... Profit margins high because they put half the dogs out on co-ownerships with at-will breeding rights retained, so they can produce dozens more without actually housing more than a few dogs in the back yard at a time.
Grrrrrr....

SS