progesterone testing - Page 1

My female came into heat about 2 weeks ago.  I thought I had a stud lined up but at the last minute I was unable to get a hold of him so I had to track down a new male...I hadn't thought to have a backup but I know better in the future!!

My female started flagging on day 9 of her heat.  I was unable to get to the new stud until day 12 (this past Monday) - she was still flagging and they bred but did not tie.  We decided to take the dogs to a reproductive vet to do an AI since we didn't have much time left.
We went to the vet who collected the male, but he did not have any viable semen - vet thought because he'd been bred that morning and said to try again in a day or so.  The vet also did a progesterone test on my female which came back the next day.  Her progesterone level was 10.6 that day - Monday.  The vet wanted us to come back on Wednesday - 2 days after she was at 10.6.

Now, everything I've read online says to breed when progesterone levels are at 5-8.  Is this vet wrong?? She's supposed to be a reproductive specialist but the numbers just don't match up...but she seemed to think Wednesday was "perfect."

I did take her back in on Wednesday, my girls was still flagging and they collected the male again but unfortunately it looks like he is sterlie...so I guess I just have to look at this as a learning experience.  But I wanted to get experienced breeders' input on the progesterone levels for next time.

And before anyone asks - yes my girl is titled, show rated, health tested, etc :)

Progesterone level of 5 indicates that ovulation will occue within 24-48 hours.  At 7-8 or so, ovulation typically has occured or is happening.  The eggs take 48 hours to mature before thay can be fertilized, so by that wednessday, they should have been ripe for the taking.

Sorry to hear of your troubles.  How experienced was the owner of the stud dog?  Next time you pick one, make sure he has produced before and have proof he is not shooting blanks, it will help calm those nerves a bit.

Oops forgot to mention - the stud is 8 years old and has produced quite a few litters.  I wanted an experienced stud with proven progeny - which he is - I didn't expect he'd go sterile at that age :( His sire produced puppies til he was 13 or 14.  Just bad luck there, and bad timing.

My repro vet told me he looks for a reading between 10 and 14, then you have 3 days to inseminate.

When you say did not tie, what do you mean, he was unable to swell at all?  Did he ejaculate at all in her that you are aware of?

Yes he did ejaculate, he swelled but stud owner said she wasn't "grabbing" him.  They did "sort of" tie for under a minute twice, but then broke and the poor boy couldn't walk for about a half an hour...owner of the male said it might be a little early and I guess according to the progesterone levels it may have been.
It is her first time breeding so I'm sure that her inexperience had something to do with it - at first she was "humping" him back, then wouldn't tie and then after trying for about an hour and a half on and off, she was getting cranky :P

Thanks for the input about progesterone levels - maybe the articles I've been reading were outdated.

The semen on Wednesday was mostly dead with a few sperm that according to the vet looked like they were dying.  The vet suggested trying another male since she was not optimistic about the breeding on Monday being successful.  I just didn't feel like I had time to research and didn't want to rush into a choice - my girl is 3 now so next heat is fine.

The male was bred to another female 3 weeks ago - I will call in a couple more weeks to see if they had any luck there.  He hadn't been bred between then...so I am hoping for a miracle - that maybe more sperm were alive on Monday and made it down to fertilize eggs.

I do know that the male had been producing a lot of males in the last year - I believe 2 litters of 8 males??  And I realize that the gender is determined by the male so maybe it was a hint that his sperm quality was declining.

Its possible that he shot his load during the attempt at natural breeding and all the vet was seeing was fluid and a few "leftovers".

Yes the male determines the sex, however there are typicall 50% of each type of sperm.  Without getting to complicated in spermatogenises, the cells that produce sperm have a complete complement of chromosomes one X one Y, when the cells divide into the haploid state (half the chromosomes contributed to the sperm cell) we get two sperm one X one Y. 

It has been typically assumed that there is a 50/50 chance that each sperm will fertilize an egg resulting in 50% female, 50% male.  Now each litter can be off on the percentages, but there should be a pretty close 50/50 split over the long haul.  For example, for every litter with 6 males and 2 females, there will be another litter with more females.

Some studies indicate that the male sperm may be faster to the goal, thus producing more males, however, the over all picture will remain close to 50/50.   If that is not seen, I would question the real "production" from that male.   Other factors could affect this, especially the females immune system or lethal genes on the X chromosomes that could cause the demise of the female fetuses.    In some females, a female embryo could be seen as an invading cell rather than a puppy and the bitch could re-absorb those embryos.

Well - he did ejaculate on Monday, but not on Wednesday which was the 2nd time we collected him.  We didn't want to risk them not tying again and having nothing left for an AI so we went straight to the vet.

So unless he had a wet dream Tuesday night....it's not looking good for us!

But it's good to hear that the vet knows what she's doing.  I don't know why everything I read online says to breed so much earlier!!