Your thoughts and opinions wanted: Question #3 - Page 1

Question 2 leads into question 3......

As we saw in Question 2, we've got a lot of problems with genetics.
The SV already has a system in place to curtail close inbreeding and addresses HD and ED.

Dealing only with severe heritary (genetic) issues,
Would you support further mandatory requirements like the A stamp program for things that can be tested for? Which ones?

Would you support mandatory reporting to the SV by veterinarians for things such as DM that only appear later in life?
If you don't support it why not?
What restrictions would you place on mandatory reporting if you agree with it?
What actions should the SV take if any?

As an example of restrictions: time limit set for owner to have diagnosis confirmed by second vet before reporting to SV, diagnosis must be positively confirmed by second vet before any action taken by the SV.

Example of actions: notation made in the breed book and published, notification sent to registered owners of progeny/parents/siblings of affected dog, breeding restriction placed on dog to stop breeding positive to positive.

thoughts and ideas anyone?

Cheers!

I think anything that can have a blood test or DNA test should be required by the SV, AKC ect, before they will register a litter.  I mention AKC because I don't fully stand behind the sch requirment.  Not everyone is interested in dog sport and I feel that we can't make that a requirment for the dogs in the USA .  The public reception would be lacking on a legal standpoint if AKC suddenly said only GSD's, Rotties, Dobes, Boxers ect. that bite can be registered!  Poepl would be marching in the streets with the designer dogs in protest.  Plus AKC has responsibility for all breeds.

They should develope a tiered registration system:

Breeders who do all of the work and testing and show AND trail their dogs is a way that is true to the breed would get the higher level registration (so terriers could do an earth dog trail, OB, Tracking, Agility or Sch or someother value to humans (therapy dogs lisence) ect). 

Second tier only for show dogs or dogs demonstrating a working ability plus all testing

Third tier for a non-performance pet breeding, AKC should stipulate that only 2 litters are acceptable at this level.  All testing should be done.

it would not weed out those that breed without papers, they will continue to do there thing and people will buy the pups to save a buck.  That will take education into what those papers really mean.

 

Baldursmom,

Thanks for the answer and very good points about public perception and dog sport. You are quite correct.

I'm really doing these questions geared toward the SV as that's the founding breed club and the original standard for the breed. Getting the AKC to do anything really worthwhile, well, let's just say I think we'd all see hell freeze over first. We can't even get them to require OFA and I'd be willing to be I could get them to register a goat.

Another good point you brought up I should have mentioned...the tiered registration system. The SV already does that in a fashion with the pink and white papers. It would be nice if the AKC would do something like that.

I think the SV is behind the times in requirments.  Thyroid function tests have been around for awhile and should be done but are not required.  There are also test for eye conditions that can screen for problems.  Tracking why animals pass away is another tool that can be used to filter out bad genes and show be avaiable to buyers of progeny.   One can register a dogs DNA for parentage reasons, but other than that its useless.

Here in the US, there will always be the tendency to use/relay on the AKC, so there has to be change there too.  The expense can drive breeders from the "right" thing, especially if they beleive there dogs are not carriers.

I agree we want to all breed healthy dogs,  but think about it,  if all these test were mandatory, and all the dogs deemed affected by the condition or even genetically carried it would be removed from our breeding programs.

what happens to our gene pool?  the breed will be widdled down just a few breeding dogs, you lose genetic diversity. Would we have to bring in a different breed just to survive? or would domestic canines in general just become extinct? people talk about bottlenecks now.

breeding is a double edge sword, we want the best, but sometimes you have to make sacrifices.

I have brought issue's like this up with old breeders before, and one comment I generally always get is "Whats the greater evil"

Blah blah blah blah blah and then some more blah.just my humble openion. thanks and have a nice one.

 Totally agree Uber Land,

We have to be careful..are we going to remove every dog with every little thing from the gene pool??

Some of these problems are polygenics..or jumps a generation only to come back later in the progenies.  And sometimes by using a dog you get rid of a problem even thought his/her line carry other problems..

Let's face it..there is not a line out there without problems..starting with that we have to do our research to make sure we try to stay out of reproducing those debilitating pathlogies..

In a lot of way's I agree with the statement from uberland, we can't throw the baby out with the bathwater, but we can filter that bath water a bit and make sure carriers of bad recessive genes are not paired together or be aware that such a pairing could produce an affected pup, monitor those litters and make sure affected pups are identifyed as early as possible.

I have schipperke, and in our breed we have a serious disease called MSP111B.  The affected dogs generally have to be put to sleep at an early age.
responsible breeders have their stock DNA tested for this disease.  all my guys are normal, meaning they don't carry the genes for the disease.  some dogs are carriers, and knowing this a breeder can make sure to only breed this dog to another one who is normal.  still a small percentage of the litter will be a carrier, you just have to DNA and see which ones.
Alot of nice champion males are carriers in our breed. if we removed the carriers from our lines, we would be left with an extremely small gene pool.
I would never breed a carrier-carrier.  and I would not breed a dog who came back as affected (having the gene's but not showing signs of the disease)

I can see a need for DNA tests on the dieases that affect gsd, but we can't get carried away and eliminate the dogs who are carriers.

Now what happens when we can designs our own dogs genetically?  scientist are already able to make designer babies.  you can pick what eye color you want the kid to have, male or female, hair color and even skin color.  they can go in and remove defective genes and gene's known to cause disease later in life.  anyone read the book or seen the movie Gattica?  thats the direction I am afraid we are moving towards.

You are so correct Uberland, it is the other side of this coin.  As I said we can't throw the baby out with the bathwater, we need to use the inforamtion we can gather intelligently. 

My fear is cloning, for 150K each we can all have a VA or National Chamion clone.  Takes all the fun out of it!