US Ch. Leroy Brown at Westminster - Page 1

I was actually hoping that some of the American/ Canadian line afficionados would be able to discuss the pedigree and the acutaly query regarding the origin of the sable coloring in this dog.    Anyone?

The sable dog you are thinking of re Herding group I think was a bitch. It well may have been a Windwalker bitch.
 

Leroy's mother is a saddle pattern sable. Often seen where the sable is NOT  homogeneous and carries the B/T saddle gene from a parent.  I've seen a lot of this in the American lines I think in part because their sables tend to be light sables. With these dogs by the time they are 5 it's hard to tell if they are a sable or a faded black and tan and only by knowing what they looked like as a puppy can a true detemination be made ( puppy will be brown or light grey not the traditional b/t). There used to be a few sable lines that got darker as they matured but I think they have been lost.  Coloring issues may also be affected by a separate fading pigment gene. Cobert's Reno definitely carried this. Some of his B/T bitches by age 6 or 7 were basically just a light red.

There is a separate thread called genetics confusion dealing with some of the Artlett dogs and I believe it's the same issue.

Now this dog was a very dark sable ( the picture looks a bit darker than he did in person)  but notice that his pattern is very much like a bi-color. He did threw dark B/T , bicolors and sables. http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/291811.html  This is a bicolor son of his http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/476755.html

I don't have the time right now but perhaps someone else can find an example of what I call a wolf sable where the sabling is over the entire body including the legs.

His mother and grandmother being sable does not explain, from the photos included with the pedigree, how THEY  and Rohan's Reaction came by the sable coloring to pass it on.   That is what I was referencing from the beginning.

TIG,

Thank  you.    Your explanation does a lot to explain something that has puzzled me from the first time I saw Leroy  in the televised  Westminster several years ago.   Subsequently , I attended a local kennel club show and saw 2 sable Am line bitches entered in the show.   I asked the breeders where the sable their bitches came from ...and they couldn't tell me.   It has puzzled me ever since.


I would have thought that a sable dog would not do too well in the AKC ring, any more than one does in theSV ring?

Mystere, two of the last three Grand Victrixes at the National have been Sables!  Castle Hill's Tuff Cookie and Hiena Gomez.  The year before Hiena won, it was a black bitch!  MarHaven's Black Orchid ^_^

I'm campaigning a sable right now, and he's doing ok for himself.

Mystere I am not sure but to me looking back from Rohans Reaction... on the motherline, I would have to assume his mother (Schokrest-Rohan Toulome) was a sable, stemming from Schokrest The Magician. This dog looks like a patterned sable to me, and his mother is Schokrest Magic in Sable. She is sable too most likely with a name like that.

Isn't Schokrest a "local" kennel? There is a kennel club coming up soon, so I think I will make a point of attending.

I don't know where Schokrest is/was from. The name has been around forever but I am not up on current American kennels so not sure if they are still breeding/showing or not. California just popped into my head, but not sure why.LOL